What is sovereignty? You cannot eat sovereignty. This treaty will cement close relation with USA further. When India was allied with commies, the growth rate was 2-3%. It has climbed to 9% after India embraced US. If we consolidate our ties further, in next fifteen years Indian per capita GDP will hit $10000. We will be just like western countries. Sovereignty does not matter. Look at Japan. US still occupy Okinawa. Their nuclear battle ships are stationed there. But it does not make any difference so far as ordinary Japanese are concerned. It is great to be US client state as UK, Germany, Italy, whole of Western Europe illustrate.
Also, communists do not believe in sovereignty. They believe in international brotherhood of the proletariat.
RE:Do not apologize
by dip dutt on Aug 25, 2007 11:22 AM Permalink
Very fair point by Minto. The key question is: What is the objective? -To be a prosperous nation or to be an economic military superpower.. I have problems with niether..
But if the goal is to be a superpower, you can't become one by being a stooge to either USA or China. To follow your specific example, Japan is a puppet nation which is not a superpower and with every passing day losing to China, be it economy or the Olympics. There used to be a time when Japan was the undisputed leader in the Asian Games...Gone are those days.. Japan's economy fluctuates with the US. I was reading an article on how US subprime market could hurt Japanese economy. On the other hand only 3% of China's banking sector depends on US subprime market and hence is insulated.
Even in the days of the USSR, China was never USSR's stooge.
To give an analogy from our day to day life, if you play stooge to your manager, you will always be #2, until he retires/moves. You should try to outsmart/outdo him if you want the position. I do not see America retiring and relinquishing its supremacy.. So the only way to create another pole is by cooperating and competing at the same time, which is exactly the outline of the Sino-US relationship,
The only clean energy alternative which produces in high volume is Nuclear Engergy.
by mr on Aug 23, 2007 09:07 PM Permalink | Hide replies
The only clean energy alternative which produces in high volume is Nuclear Engergy. Though we cannot/couldnot expect or not able to suppress the other energy sources like gas, coal. But the clean alternative to produce energy by solar cells, wave etc. is very high cost. 1 W solar panel costs almost $4.00. Also, it has a span of 10 years needs to be replaced. To run a car, we need a foot ball big solar panel installed. The other things like Wind, it is straight forward, where there is wind, there is a way kind of situation, few areas high wind, but one wind turbine cost in 1990 figure is 1 crore rupees & maintenance & repair comes around another crores over the life span of that turbine, it might have produced an energy for a few homes, I hope the maximum, I think.
New Delhi, Aug. 22: Energy from imported nuclear reactors will cost three times as much as that available from coal-fired power plants and will on an average meet just about three to five per cent of the national power demand. Technocrats working on the basis of available government figures have reached the firm conclusion that nuclear energy will not meet more than five per cent of the total primary energy basket, with 40 per cent of the nation%u2019s future energy needs being met by oil and gas.
The claim that nuclear energy is linked to growth is false, these experts point out, as India%u2019s reliance on hydrocarbons will not diminish even with imported nuclear reactors. The experts have quoted from a Planning Commission study (Integrated Energy Policy, 2006, Planning Commission), which admits to be taking the most optimistic scenario when it points out the best-case scenario for nuclear power to be 15,000MW by 2015 and 29,000 MW by 2021. These targets include 8,000MW from imported reactors.
Even by this %u201Coptimistic scenario%u201D, as the Planning Commission calls it, nuclear energy will add only up to seven per cent of the total installed capacity. And if the government%u2019s unsubstantiated claim of producing 40,000MW of nuclear energy by 2020 is given even hypothetical credence, the end figure is still less than nine per cent. The experts pointed out that the more realistic estimate, even by government statistics, was closer to the 3-5 per cent figure.
Recently one Paki Ambassador was send to India in some bad condition, what kind of cry comes from these people. Nothing!
by mr on Aug 23, 2007 06:45 PM Permalink | Hide replies
Recently one Indian Ambassador in Pakistan was send to India in some bad condition, what kind of cry comes from these people. Nothing! HeadLess Chicken or headful chicken doesn't protest the country.
Mr.Ronen Sen should be immediately called back and prosecuted for his nonsesne utterances at international platform.He has shown disrespect to 1st and 4th pillar of democracy calling them headless chickens. His autocratic attitude does not believe in healthy debates but in a below table deals. He is blot on the nation and should be prosecuted immediately. What a shame when a Minister read an apology letter of an ambassador in a Parliament. Goverment has lowered the dignitary of the Parliament and forced opposition to distrupt the proceedings by not acting against the guilty person NONSEN MR.RONEN SEN
It is Sen's intoxication of position and status that was responsible for such naked arrogance displayed by him towards even media persons as he claimed! He has got no business to call any one as "headless chicken"! Further, his blatant lie to deny his reported statement in personal capacity is merely a thought over "eye wash" and hence an attempt to escape from his expose of ego that has been now exposed by the affirmation of the reporter about his definite pronouncement. Perhaps, he has exposed himself by such unwarranted comments that depicted him as an "head less chick"! Such arrogant person, enjoying all amenities and honours due to Indian Nation, should be cut to size to make him realize his real position as another human to honour every life with respect and regard, which is the ultimate purpose of education! Perhaps, his tall education and vast experience haven't contributed adequately to arrive at a judicious decision by preferring to nuke energy than national security!
RE:Re-call the diplomat!
by Vishnu Sharma on Aug 23, 2007 08:58 AM Permalink
Get lost Left Moron Your days are numbered We will not sacrifice the career of First rate diplomats just because third rate traitors like you want to destroy India in totality. BURN IN HELL !!
RE:Re-call the diplomat!
by Gautam nil on Aug 23, 2007 10:09 AM Permalink
Mr. Vishnu Sharma,t hough I don't belong to any party politics, it is amazing to note that people are not able to weigh which is important - National security or energy? U.S had been behaving in a manner most untrustworthy even in our India-Pak affairs by supplyng sophisticated arms and ammunitions to Pak and calling for peace in the region! Can we enter into an agreement with such a country, who can violate by force as they did in the past with more powerful nations? Let us all not turn "headless chicken"! Think, think, don't enter into dirty politis! Brain work is needed here and not prejudicial politics as we the Indinas can do only this effectively instead of finding alternate sources of power within country. It is due to enormous corruption and letharginess of the top guys the avaiable enormous amount of power sources are lying untouched in the coasts of Kerala as Thorium which is very much adequate for our future generation. Without tapping our own sources due to delays in the parts of top officers like Sen, jutt as a cover up to all their non performance which are unaccounted they direct us to beg weaterners! Why did thses top guys fail to tap our own enormous sources? Corruption and lethargy at every level are fully responsible. Organise fixing accountablity and make these top guys directing to US responsible for such worst conditions in our nation! Will you go to US for removing corruption? Will you go to US for speeding up courts?
RE:Re-call the diplomat!
by Vishnu Sharma on Aug 24, 2007 12:27 AM Permalink
Our scientists have been working on the thorium alternative for the last 40 years. We cannot afford to waste another 10 years. For 40 Years our scientists have been in labour and the baby has not been delivered yet.
Since the 123 agreement allows either party to terminate the deal with one years notice.
All we need to do it so setup 6 Uranium based Nuclear plants and work actively on the thorium Reactor.
India has a so-called "three-stage nuclear program". In the first stage, plutonium is created in its pressurized heavy water reactors (PHWRs) and extracted by reprocessing. In the second stage, fast breeder reactors (FBRs) use this plutonium in 70-percent MOX-fuel to breed uranium-233 in a thorium blanket around the core. In the final stage, the FBR's use thorium-232 and produce uranium-233 for other reactors.
The first stage has been realized with India's 10 nuclear power plants. The second stage is only realized by a small experimental fast breeder reactor (13 MW), at Kalpakkam. This reactor has a history with a lot of problems (as has been the case with the 10 nuclear reactors).
This reactor is on top of a list of DANGEROUS reactors in the country, according to a safety assessment of India's Atomic Energy Regulatory Board. The reactor has a lack of safety measures and cooling systems.
Once we are able to meet safety standards we can walk out of the deal giving one year notice.
RE:RE:Re-call the diplomat!
by Ramil Mukherjee on Aug 24, 2007 06:09 AM Permalink
"Since the 123 agreement allows either party to terminate the deal with one years notice".
This is utterly misrepresentation of facts. USA can terminate the pact whenever they think the pact is against "USA Nuclaer Eergy ACT 123 Hyde Act". India will have to serve one year notice and will be assesssed by Intenational Atomic Energy Commission if India's arguments are acceptable or not!
So USA and INDIA have different traffics to pace through!
And What an argument for procuring foreign help! Why this urgency? You donot have faith in Indian Scientist - you faith in India politicians and "corrupt to the root" Indian polity?!
It now appears You are in the recepient side of this corrupt alliance! Are you?!
RE:Re-call the diplomat!
by Vishnu Sharma on Aug 23, 2007 08:05 PM Permalink
This National Security you are speaking is very narrow in every sense. It just helps to serve Chinese interests. I am thinking of collective security, with India, USA, Australia and Japan forming an Alliance. I HAVE THE BIGGER PICTURE. I am firmly convinced of the Red peril facing India and will not be budged from my stand. The Reds in our country are working HAND IN GLOVE with our sworn enemies: Islamic Fundamentalism and Fascist China. Only a turkey cannot realize this truth. I have lived in the former Soviet Union and the US and know the difference. In the Soviet Union there used to be 1000 person queues to get even Toothpaste. I have seen what a shabbles the Reds leave behind in their wake. I am amazed that educated Bengalis still want to flock to the Red Rag. We DO NOT need MARX. When we have Vivekananda, Bose, Tagore and Aurobindo to inspire us.
RE:Re-call the diplomat!
by Ramil Mukherjee on Aug 24, 2007 04:02 AM Permalink
"We DO NOT need MARX. When we have Vivekananda, Bose, Tagore and Aurobindo to inspire us"
Marx is an alternative economic system to Capitalist economy.The term "CAPITALISM" encompasses the theoretical contributions from eminent scholars from the days of Adams , Keynes, to the modern era. The path changes continually - which they call dynamism - as the system rolls towards CRISIS till it ultimately culminates in CAPITALIST WAR ( already world has seen two Great and many fragmentary).Only constants in the system is the ulteriar motive of profit and accamulation of capital by explloitation of labour market , by subjection of weaker countries to survile acceptance of economic packges by formulating unequal deals, so forth and so on.When all methods fail and profit and/or accumulation of capital crunches capitalist War begins - starting with diplomatic war for market and ultimately war with armaments!
Where as a singular CONCEPT OF MARXISM stands alone against such formidable group of thinkers with its basic premises of "communist manifesto" remaining unchanged in any condition since its ultimate mision is to establish an exploitation-free industrial society.
When "one" stands opposed to"many" you can easily assess its enormous strength! Whatever concession you receive from the sharks is to keep this strong opponents at bay?! America has started showing its feline fangs only after Bolshevic Russia fragmented.( contd. to next message)
RE:RE:Re-call the diplomat!
by Vishnu Sharma on Aug 24, 2007 05:54 AM Permalink
Marx is not the alternative system to capitalism. We have different economic models like mixed economy and socialism does not need a dictatorship of the proletariat to see it through.
RE:Re-call the diplomat!
by Ramil Mukherjee on Aug 24, 2007 05:06 AM Permalink
( contd. from previous note): Russia will have to reinitiate its offence agaist USA but this time as a Capitaist force , again and we will have to bear the burden of war as we did during 2nd.Great War.
Your concept of INDIA-USA-AUSTRALIA-JAPAN axis is day dream! It only exposes your shallow depth in International Affairs, Political Economy, and even in basic political science! I better my lips closed and leave it to others for assessing you!
I am glad that you referred the differences between Soviet Russia and USA - that conforms with my image about Soviet Russia! After all they were not Fleecing Imperialist Jiants! How do you explain the fact that such a backward nation could be so formidable as to scare all the Western Capitalist Powers including USA? And the history of taming Hitler could be made possible! Can you imagine what enormous contribution to human civilization was made by that Bolshevic resistance!Can you imagine what can drive a nation, still in its process of building, could give that resistance!It simply the patriotic urge for Liberty and Freedom!
Your sudden euphoria in referring Vivekananda,Bose,Tagore, and Aurobindo is ludicrous! We were so long talking political economy - does any of these great personalities ever spoke on that? I would be obliged if you care to enrich me with informations! Tagore ofcourse had a scheme of rural development. Is the implementation of that in large scale sectors you prescribe?! Will that get the approval of your Br
RE:Re-call the diplomat!
by Vishnu Sharma on Aug 24, 2007 05:44 AM Permalink
You are another brainwashed commie. Your puerile arguments make me laugh. I cannot accept your support of totalitarian systems. The fall of Communism in Eastern Europe is good enough proof to the bankruptcy of the idea. Marxism is an ideology which which discounts the importance of individual man and his free-will and replaces them with the dead-weight of the masses. Marxism is ultimately always bound to fail under the weight of its own contradictions. No invention worthy of mention has Come out of Bolshevik Russia save the universal weapon of terror -> The AK 47. On the contrary most inventions that we use today came out of capitalist countries because of the competition that a free market economy fosters.
Indeed, Marx never set foot on India and he is in no position to judge Indian strengths and weaknesses. On the other hand Vivekananda, Bose and Tagore and Gandhi had a working idea of how to raise the morale and the character of our people without subjecting the individual under their guidance to terror and violence.
Bolshevik Russia fragmented and so will all communists states. The only reason Russia triumphed over Hitler was because of his military mistakes in 1942. The reason the west was scared about Russia was because you had a combination of a totalitarian system with Nukes no different from Nazi Germany. If the Nazis had concentration camps where they persecuted race enemies , the Russians and chinese have gulags where they persecute class enemies or "enemies of
RE:Re-call the diplomat!
by vikas dahiya on Aug 24, 2007 10:05 AM Permalink
First let me explain you MARXISM....its mean there are some fools, say 20% of the total community, who will work like a donkey and then all other 80% communists will sit lazy and then in the end will say that we have equal share of earning because we are also human being and we have equal rights in every thing.
Then, one side you are talking about economy. You are talking about Russia who came in picture again but this time as a CAPTILIST force. I think you are talking about same Russia who has MARXISM economic system. What is the need to come as a CAPTILIST forces when they have such a 'so called' sound economic model MARXISM.
You better first study about Indian economic before talking about world economy. You know this Internet media, which you are using so frequently now a day, where you can be as venomous as possible against USA, is available so easily after the US money has been put in India. Let me explain you with out talking so many technical terms. US have invested so much money in China and India that he can%u2019t attack China by making base of India. Otherwise they will destroy their economy. Vaise bhi you guies are not thinking about Indian security but about Chinies security. You don%u2019t want US or India to attack China. You need not to bother about Indian security. We, the Indians, will manage that.
RE:Re-call the diplomat!
by Ramil Mukherjee on Aug 24, 2007 09:12 AM Permalink
Hi Vishnu! Why wasting time? There are still lot of dust in Jhon Bull's boot - go and lick it.
He is aware of several high handed roles of US, purely in its own selfish reasons as its defence measures, being an experienced diplomat! For instance, without an aorta of truth in its claim about Iraq's possession of the so called widely published "weapons of mass destruction", U.S. massacred Saddam Hussain and other several thousands of innocent people, inclusive of his own soldiers just to get oil, as exposed by U.N. observers, due to which U.S. earned wide criticism from almost all over the world with protest rallies from several nations inclusive of their own people! This is just one instance, whereas the world history shows their unwarranted interference into local affairs of several nations like Afghanisthan, Israel-Palestine, India-Pakistan, Iran and North-South Korea, etc., They supply arms and ammunitions, inclusive of sophisticated bomber fighter planes with highest modern latest technology etc., to Pakistan on one side besides huge amounts as packages etc., and plead for truce and peace between India and Pakistan! All such are wicked activities purely in their selfish interests due to a fear of attack on them by other nations!
As US. is cunning with India too as we saw in their sustained role in India - Pak relations, they have proved to be most untrustworthy by such past activities in the entire world! India can never trust such a notorious nation! On the name of nuke fuel, they may manage to enter into our defence nuke installations to spy which might cost heavily later, if we are not avoiding any deal with U.S. especially on nuke matters or any concerning our defence matters. Perhaps, the diplomat is well influenced by provision of sophisticated amenities and other modern facilities by U.S. to push through, their well thought over scheme to enter into such area to subsequently show their true colors! When U.N. is incapable to confront U.S., can India alone face such most unreliable threats of war etc., subsequently? It is under these circumstances that immediate recall of the diplomat with immediate termination of this dangerous agreement is most vital, keeping our national security as the upper most priority than energy consideration! I doubt his return too as perhaps, he might prefer to stay back to settle in U.S. permanently!
Left leaders are chinese agents.. History of Left party(s) in Indian politics:
1) 1942- Quit India Movement: History says left leaders helped the british govt. to catch nationalist leaders..
2) 1942-45- WWII: They Termed Netaji Subhas Bose as "Tojo's dog" ( for your information Tojo was the Jap. PM during WWII).
2) 1947- Independence: "Yeh azadi jhuta hai" was the slogan of the left wing.
3) 1961- Indo-China war: The leftist view was to shift the blame on the Indian govt. by claimimg " it is India who attacked (read our father) China"
4) 1987 -West Bengal Board of Secondary Education: The left front govt. took english out of the school curriculum to prevent higher study of common people while sending their own kids to english medium schools. 15 years later they realized(!) the mistake and reintroduced English in Bengali medium schools.
6) 2000- 100th Birthday of Shyama Prasad Mukerjee (who was instrumental for the generation of West Bengal from East Pakistan, otherwise the people of Bengal would have to bear the religious torture of Pakistan and Bangladesh) : The CM of W.Bengal Budhdha Bhattacharya refused to attend the ceremony citing him as a communal leader. He forgot that he was enjoying the luxary of a CM partly because of the great man's relentless effort when Neheru was busy with the division of Punjab.
RE:Left Leaders
by Ramil Mukherjee on Aug 23, 2007 05:05 AM Permalink
Will you please oblige with comments on the: On remark no. 1) Some name in this connection with source of knowledge may please be furnished 2) When Netaji contested against Pattavi Sitaramaya for Congress president ship (Gandhi I said: Pattavi's defeat is my defeat): Netaji own the election in spite of 84 out of 87 Congress votes in Bengal was cast against him. Netaji was compelled to quit Congress as a consequence: Any comment? 2) What you think today " Yeh Ajadi , except for a privileged few, SACH NIKLI" 3) Context of Indo-China war requires a large space for discussion: some stories of Krishna Menon were arguably quite dubious! 4) Would you kindly furnish what percentage of rural children received any kind of schooloing in first 25 years of Congress rule in West Bengal? How many of them are successful only for mastering ENGLISH! Why our budget on primary education is so meager in last 60 years of central planning? 6) Partition of Punjub and Bengal is a sensitive issue %u2013 it rarely scratches people of other state. It is a concocted myth that Dr. Shyamaprasad snatched a portion of Bengal. You would do better reading books like Last Days of British Raj, and writings of Sarat Bose. Do you deny that Dr. Shyamaprasad preached and promoted communalism through his Hindu Mahasabha?
Speak straight Bush-faced pseudo patriots! With your privilege, passport, and begging bowl keep dancing on the breast of starving million till another Capitalist-Capitalist war which
RE:Left Leaders
by Ramil Mukherjee on Aug 23, 2007 05:27 AM Permalink
Will you please oblige with comments on the following: 1) Some name in this connection with source of knowledge may please be furnished 2) When Netaji contested against Pattavi Sitaramaya for Congress president ship (Gandhiji said: Pattavi's defeat is my defeat): Netaji own the election in spite of 84 out of 87 Congress votes in Bengal was cast against him. Netaji was compelled to quit Congress as a consequence: Any comment? 3) What you think today " YEH AJADI , except for a privileged few, SACH NIKLI" 4) Context of Indo-China war requires a large space for discussion: some stories of Krishna Menon were arguably quite dubious! 5) What percentage of rural children received any kind of schooloing in first 25 years of Congress rule in West Bengal? How many of them are successful only for mastering ENGLISH! Why our budget on primary education is so meager in last 60 years of central planning? 6) Partition of Punjub and Bengal is a sensitive issue. It rarely scratches people of other state. It is a concocted myth that Dr. Shyamaprasad snatched a portion of Bengal and saved HINDU BENGALLES. Do you deny that Dr. Shyamaprasad preached and promoted communalism through his Hindu Mahasabha?
Speak straight Bush-faced pseudo patriots! With your privilege, passport, and begging bowl keep dancing on the breast of starving million till another Capitalist-Capitalist war which is ensuing fast!
RE:Left Leaders
by Debasish on Aug 23, 2007 07:53 AM Permalink
Well, I never wrote in favour of Congress, but the way you have replied, it seems you are bent upon hiding left party's blunders by pointing out others faults. Shame on you, but this is the tactics CPIM have always taken in Bengal. 1.Can you deny that Netaji was not called "Tojo's Dog"? 2. Our indendence is not ideal but "jhuta bhi nehin hai"..(It may still be jhuta to you thanks to your stupid thinking) 3. So you still think "India attacked China in 1962", better you go to your dreamland (I believe it is either China or Cuba). 4. If many are successful by mastering English, then you should realize the importance of that language instead of kicking it out. 5. I dont know what kind of education you have (although if you are leftist, your education is irrelevant because no matter what you do you will always be brainwashed), many of my classmates who were very bright couldn't get good jobs due their inability to speak fluently in english. 6. You called me pseudo-patriots but it is people like you and your comrades who are the true antinationals and agents of china. 7. Only true countries have officially expressed concerns about the nuclear deal, China and Pakistan. It shows your true colour if you are also opposing the deal. 8. Whatever Shyamaprasad did, it saved millions from torture, that is why he is a true hero unlike your leaders. 9. Lastly, by placing your claims three times, what are you going to achieve? It shows that you are desparate. You have not been able t
RE:Left Leaders
by Ramil Mukherjee on Aug 23, 2007 05:41 PM Permalink
First I plead guilty of putting my post three times - but fault was not mine - I submitted edited post - I don't have explanation why the same post has come out every time. As regards Netaji I just want to say that Left parties have admitted that their assessment of Netaji was wrong. Where is a similar self-criticism from those who compelled him to leave the country? The proportion of successful persons due to english alone has not diminished, by making english less important. On the otherhand general education has reached the corners of rural Bengal. Your capitalist system needs such mushroom proliferation of education to build a culturally responsive market.Without education people bends to feudal notions and are afraid to comeout of long practised habits - a trend which delimits the expansion of market! No definitely Our Ajadi is not JHUTA! We can raise our voice in our own Parliament- thats a great achievemnet!The fruits of Ajadi reached a privileged few because of the comprador nature of our bourgeise and predominance of feudal loby in Indian polity.Our surender to international supremos is due to stooges who has left this nation to this HALAT by acting as agents. We should have Ajadi from hunger,illiteracy, oppression - that would be SACH AJADI! Are of the age to recall the massacre on the eve of Independence and the subjection of Bengal to the trauma of partition!This British click of engendering communal disharmony was always on card from 1905!(see next post)
RE:RE:Left Leaders
by Ramil Mukherjee on Aug 23, 2007 06:23 PM Permalink
Debashis would you please explain why you patriotism accepts denial of fruits of the pact to our own of Indian Capitalists like Tata, Ambani, and others for the interest of American corporates!?Sorry to say that my concept of "Patriotism" does not conform with this stance.
RE:RE:Left Leaders
by Ramil Mukherjee on Aug 23, 2007 06:17 PM Permalink
( Contd. from previous post): Shyamaprasad was never paced together with Sarat Bose on the issue of Partition- Why? And perhaps you your millions means "the Hindu Bengalees"! I reserve my comments on your 5th. point except mentioning that having education doesnot mean speaking half-cultivated english with an american accent! Students of our days , when english was taught with screwing pressure , only two percent could speak english fluently! if you are from Bengal you can taste this with senior citizens.
As far Sino-Indian border dispute is concerned I would better refer you to present Governet's spokesman.Give them a ear in public and listen the gulp of swallowing words? However my assessment of this dispute does not say we were not attacked - question was is that on retalion to provocation? This Krish Menon failed to answer in the then Parliament - why?
Come to yuor 6th. point! Answer me why according the terms of 123 pact , based on American Nuclear Energy Act 123 ( Hyde Act), and deter us from continuing research on Neclear Science? Why not in the commission of the project our own Corporates have no place? Why the unequal condition of withdrawl: America can do it if only they find Indian role is contra to said act 123( which is absolutely an American Act). For India to withdraw one years notice is to be served and will require permission of International Atomic Energy Commission? Why this discrimination is so unreservedly supported by you?! ( see next post)
RE:Left Leaders
by vikas dahiya on Aug 23, 2007 11:57 AM Permalink
Well-said Debasish. This guy Ramil seems mentally sick to me if he still want to argue Chainies attack on India and saying Indian freedom as false. He should be send to china. China or Pakistan could only dream to destroy India, but these guies can do it with ease in no time. We should beware of these any-national elements.
RE:Left Leaders
by dip dutt on Aug 23, 2007 12:59 PM Permalink
Debashis: I am not sure you are updated on world affairs..The nuclear deal is not a standalone event.. 1. The US is trying to install Missile defense shield in Eastern Europe right on the nose of Russia. This is a part of the continuing expansion of NATO even after the demise of Soviet Union. Please read Vladimir Putin's statement on the subject. 2. Ongoing attempt to displace Hugo Chavez and other South American Governments. 3. Having India as a puppet-sattelite to contain China. I am not here to argue for China, but I do not want to be drawn into a Sino-US war just as people of Poland and Ukraine do not want to be drawn into a US-Russia war.. Let the superpowers fight, but leave us alone.. In the midst of this so called nuclear crisis, we have forgotten we have enough problems. Half the country is submerged in neck-deep flood water!!
SInce you mentioned Netaji and Tojo, even at this juncture you have the choice of siding with the evil or otherwise. China has thousands of blemishes but no one can say China is an evil imperialist power. With China's might they can bomb the heck out of Taiwan, but they have n't.
Before you write, please spend 5 seconds and think of the countless murders in Iraq, Afganistan, Palestine and elsewhere. You may cite China's lack of democracy but that's their internal issue.
RE:Left Leaders
by Debasish on Aug 23, 2007 08:37 PM Permalink
To Dip, I have never written that US is free of blemishes. But keep in mind that china has already attacked India in the past and I dont agree with you that India will be a puppet satellite to contain china. If US is evil, then China is a much bigger threat to India. If they can shoot at their own people (Tiananmain square-1989, resulting in about 5000 casualties), imagine what they could do to their enemies. They have not attacked Taiwan because of international pressure. But they are always halping Pakistan (you can argue that US is doing the same thing). If the Pak. president can take help from US, why not us? We should think about our motherland's benefit, instead the left leaders are busy pointing out how bad the US foreign policy is. Who cares if India is getting benefitted, lets grab the opportunity.
I dont know how many chinese people you have met in your life, I met quite a few and they dont know much about the Tiananmain shooting, which shows how much control the govt. has over media. SO think of India's interest and then decide....
RE:Left Leaders
by dip dutt on Aug 25, 2007 05:55 AM Permalink
Debashis, First of all bringing Tienamen Square into the discussion digresses from the topic of foreign affairs. Tienamen has nothing to do with foreign affairs. I can cite the McCarthian period and tons of other examples where the US also silenced the internal detractors. Do you know 40% of people in the US do not vote because they do not believe they are represented (this was the foundation of Ralph Nader's candidature)
You have conveniently forgotten that the US sent its seventh fleet during the Indo-Bangladesh war to fight against India.
In your argument on Chinese dictatorship you have also forgotten that your idol i.e. Netaji Subhash (as per your first mail) himself advocated disctatorship in India for 30 years post independence.
China has its problems. But from my numerous business visits I can tell you that laws are pretty liberal for the Average Joe. You surely will have freedom issues if you are a member of Falun Gong or you wish to browse some stupid pornographic sites, but if you are an average nine-to-five man on the street, it is much much free than India. Such an average Joe constitutes 75% of the population.. One can easily decipher that by the sheer number of working women on the streets.
To me gender equality and freedom from religious rituals are much more important than the freedom to do some stupid google search and watch pornographic materials..
RE:Left Leaders
by Ramil Mukherjee on Aug 24, 2007 06:42 AM Permalink
If they can shoot at their own people (Tiananmain square-1989, resulting in about 5000 casualties), imagine what they could do to their enemies
I dont know how many chinese people you have met in your life, I met quite a few and they dont know much about the Tiananmain shooting, which shows how much control the govt. has over media.
????!!!! 5000 families poor by a member in one day if each family can speak to one other person per week it should have been 5000 x 52 x 16 = 4,160,000 people inside China only who knows the fact.It would be more than that if we consider compound proliferation! Add to that the media-fed millions like you!
So either Chinese you met suppressed truth by denying their knowlege about the incident or it never happened to that scale!
Whatever has happened it occured inside China. How many such Chinese action has been reported, in the media that you trust, from Taiwan or Tibbet!
What permits Bush to poke nose in Iraq affair and kill millions there?!
What ached USA to go in Vietnam War?! I donot remember verbatim - the then President of USA said to justify Vietnam campaign " We can not afford to spare Mekong Delta - the graneries of Estern Asia - to be used by others " - so get Vietnam!
Tell me honestly how and why you brought the Chinese issue in the debate about 123 Pact??
Are you a paid agent for doing that?
I remember a typcal Bengali proverb - " Golper goru gache chodano" - got in head - if you have any?
RE:Left Leaders
by Debasish on Aug 24, 2007 09:50 AM Permalink
Ramil, From your writing I suppose your English is pretty good, cant you understand my earlier messages.. Well, I brought up China because Dip dutta mentioned China and to show the ugly side of communism and to mention the fact that antinationals like you (and left parties) still support our enemy. I have to give you credit for one reason, you are trying very well to confuse readers from the main issue, which is: INDIAN COMMUNISTS ARE ANTI-NATIONALS FROM THE BEGINNING. I am familiar with this tactics coz. I have seen that whenever a so called communist is losing an arguement, he or she tries to divert the main topic of discussion (like our great leader Jyoti Basu always used to say: er pechone samrajyobader kalo haat ache) Let me tell you a proverb in Bengali: "chore chore mastuto bhai" JUST IMAGINE THAT IF YOU HAD STARTED LEARNING ABCD FROM 6TH GRADE, YOU WOULD NOT HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE TO WRITE ANY MESSAGES IN THIS DISCUSSION. By the way, if English is not important, then why on earth the left front govt. reintroduced English 15 years later (in W. Bengal)? Who will compensate the students (my estimate is 5 million) in those 15 years who suffered due to lack of adequate exposure to English? Lets face it, the left front govt. in Bengal has crippled the education, industry (by the help of CITU).. History will never forgive them
RE:Left Leaders
by Ramil Mukherjee on Aug 24, 2007 06:41 PM Permalink
If we are prone to confuse real issue! here the real issue is 123 Pact.
I have put two questions on that in several post, but neither has been replied!
Instead you are bringing communism in the picture!
The axes of two world wars were formed by Capitalists nations. If another comes that would also be between capitalist nations.
What proved that I am a traitor!
During Chinese war my Gold medals have gone to National Fund! because I am a traitor!
And then we were told the war could be avoided!
We are traitors!
My family has sacrificed life in Lahor sector,in riots after partition- and we find your leaders well off in pomp and revelry while my widow aunt died almost starving. And we are traitors!
We had to face the evils of PL 480 . And we are traitors!
Patriots are they who think USA gives us job , so USA can be our Godfather?So did Mirjafar - his clones are back in new robes!
If you can, answer the questions I have put or stop this mudslinging
History will say who is who!
Anyway thanks for giving my letters so much importance - may it be as bitter critic.
RE:Left Leaders
by Ramil Mukherjee on Aug 23, 2007 05:20 AM Permalink
Will you please oblige with comments on the following: 1) Some name in this connection with source of knowledge may please be furnished 2) When Netaji contested against Pattavi Sitaramaya for Congress president ship (Gandhiji said: Pattavi's defeat is my defeat): Netaji own the election in spite of 84 out of 87 Congress votes in Bengal was cast against him. Netaji was compelled to quit Congress as a consequence: Any comment? 3) What you think today " YEH AJADI , except for a privileged few, SACH NIKLI" 4) Context of Indo-China war requires a large space for discussion: some stories of Krishna Menon were arguably quite dubious! 5) What percentage of rural children received any kind of schooloing in first 25 years of Congress rule in West Bengal? How many of them are successful only for mastering ENGLISH! Why our budget on primary education is so meager in last 60 years of central planning? 6) Partition of Punjub and Bengal is a sensitive issue. It rarely scratches people of other state. It is a concocted myth that Dr. Shyamaprasad snatched a portion of Bengal and saved HINDU BENGALLES. Do you deny that Dr. Shyamaprasad preached and promoted communalism through his Hindu Mahasabha?
Speak straight Bush-faced pseudo patriots! With your privilege, passport, and begging bowl keep dancing on the breast of starving million till another Capitalist-Capitalist war which is ensuing fast!
These left buffoons are not even fit to lick his shoes. Naturally after all the lobbying to get better conditions than the US gave China. We feel we are being stabbed in the back by the left. The is the greatest (stab in the back DOLCHSTOSS) the left have rendered India.