BJP and NDA were much afraid of George Bush. So they did not unlock the reality to remove George Fernandes' trouser at American Airport when he was a minister.
People punished those people earlier, who were moving with George Bush and his Globalization. Manmohan Singh is ready to help America to attack Iran as vajpayee govt. was ready to send troops to Iraq. Moral of these truths are no political party is ready to do for our country.
The BJP had tried to do such a deal with the US but what is gathered from the news is that it did not go thru because BJP would not accept certain conditions of USA. Frankly though all political parties are corrupt, BJP seems to be the better amongst the lot. Though more than 10 years of power could corrupt them too, like Congress is in total shambles now. Frankly, India really needs to carve its own path. It needs to focus on its abundant supply of Solar and wind power and if necessary ask developed nations like USA, Germany etc to share technology for harnessing these resources. This way we will be cooperating with them and not raising big questions about our national security etc.
I agree with the editor that our communist leaders are working more for china's interests than for India's interests..
In my opinion, India will benefit more than by losing from this treaty by getting nuclear fuel and technology to increase the use of nuclear power for generating electricity. It is much needed in this crucial time of india's development. Seeing the target set for power generation in coming years it would be very difficult to reach with conventional power generation which consumes more resources, time consuming and causes pollution.
Communists argue that the deal would undermine our soverign rights(to test nuclear weapons), independent foreign policy...in my opinion its a bluff....
We are a nuclear weapons state...we have tested enough nuclear bombs and have nuclear weapons in our arsenel...i guess we may not even require another nuclear test to create more weapons...Now our requirement is in power generation only ....
In this space we are in need of two core things....first is the nuclear fuel and second is the technology.....Though we have acheived something indigenously on the technology side, still we are working with Russians for advanced reactors and using the aged reactors provided by Canada/US some decades ago...It would take us some more time (u never know how much exactly) for us to be self suffiencient in hi-tech nuclear reators...For fuel, which is a finite resource, our position is really weak...We dont have enuogh fuel to feed our re
RE:Indian communists acting as proxies for China
by Raja on Aug 20, 2007 01:23 PM Permalink
(continuation....)
We dont have enuogh fuel to feed our reactors in future...anyway we need to import it from countries who have it....Till now that has not been smooth beacause of the India's stand with the international community...So far we had to be rigid, because we tested weopons and that was the foremost important thing due to security reasons...
But with the current stature of India has changed... We are not desperate now for nuclear weapons as in 70/80 when we were warring with Pakistan and fearing china ..Though PAK and china still maintain their enemity with India, they wont play with us now as like before..I think our defence establishments are working only on the nuclear weapons delivery platforms like missiles/submaries/aircrafts which are not covered in this treaty...
Regarding US, it may be wrong in many other aspects of global politics, but here with India, they give something and get something, and its vice versa for us....Its a buyer's market every where and we are a buyer here....India is no longer in the same status as did in 70/80's depending on other countries for crucial tech....We have confidence and courage, no country can sign a deal and cheat us, if US want to use us, we shall use them for ours advantage...we can negotiate any deal to our advantage....I think Congress did exactly the same....I guess, if BJP is the ruling party, they would have done the same....
Communists simply want to put India on the same path as in olden days (sca
RE:RE:Indian communists acting as proxies for China
by Raja on Aug 20, 2007 01:27 PM Permalink
(Continuation...)
Communists simply want to put India on the same path as in olden days (scared of globalisation, security treaties)...Remember Left parties did the same when Narshima Rao initiated economic liberalisation....
I think for us, US is better than China...For Communists its the other way...China is spreading its naval muscle all around us...they have installed bases/radars in Myanmar, bhutaan, assisting pakistan in all aspects, even provding weapons to Srilanka...Infact chinese are smart that they dont fear any country for signing any deal...They negotiate any deal to their advantage....They do business with US, buy weapons from Russia, Suppress rivals like India by using proxies(communists)...
RE:Indian communists acting as proxies for China
by David Dak on Aug 20, 2007 03:52 PM Permalink
Yes, Raja. US is better than China but India has to learn from China first and it seems that at the moment India is coping China in a whole range things. There is a debating in India about wither to send 100 or 200 Indian law makers to China to learn one thing or two. You see, China is not as good as US mow but still much better than India and India has to copy China to get there. Go to other websits to see how the world see India and China. Until then you will not know how far India is behind China in every aspect.
RE:Indian communists acting as proxies for China
by Raja on Aug 20, 2007 05:19 PM Permalink
Hi David,
I agree China is way ahead of India in terms of economic/social development. India is on the right track but the momentum is slow and would not catch up China in near future....
But we Indians are not worried about that...We have our own problems and would be tackled in our own way.....But we will do it....
I want to tell you that, India being a democracy, with the second largest population, started its independent journey by 1947 with problems like illetracy, poverty, caste based discriminating social system, not united by a single language, minimum or no infrastructure left by the british, unfriendly neighbourhood, proportionately less natural resourses, and it goes on....
With all these problems every other country imagined that India wont survive and split into smaller countries...would become another Africa...
After 60 sixty years, if you see India now, it has survived and has changed a lot and marching ahead weeding the problems one by one..though we have many inherent problems still, they would be corrected on the go in future....
But one thing for sure is, once we(indians) get rid of our old ills, which we would, India would have no match in the world (even the US)...
RE:RE:Indian communists acting as proxies for China
by David Dak on Aug 20, 2007 06:18 PM Permalink
Dear Raja:
I am 100% agree with you about your above assessment about India. I fully understand India's problem. Please read my comments in this forum "Communism will save India". It will tell you why China can develop so rapid but India has not even China had similar situation as India in 1949. China in 1949 had just finished civil war. There was nothing left. Chinese people were much poorer than Indian people at that time. The main difference between these two countries were that China had chosen communism but India was left by Brit as a chaotic democracy. The less need for a big and poor countries like China and India is a chaotic democ eapecially with population of low literacy. Such country needs a strong gov. even a dictatorship to get development start swiftly and enable the population to be educated, to have shelter, to have healty life. Election to the poor people is not as important as to offer them enough food and adequited education. It is pity that after 60 years, those elected govs still struggle to offer decent life to most poor Indian. I am sincerely wish Indian people can live a healthy and happy life. I have also no doubt that Indian eventually will get there but it may take you a long time to get there in your current social and political system. Good luck.
RE:Indian communists acting as proxies for China
by Sahadevan KK on Aug 20, 2007 01:26 PM Permalink
The Left is committed to people of India. So they are doing constructive politics for India's valuable future. People know today about the nuclear deal because the increased strength of the Left. They atleast stayed it for a public debate. BJP liked US to be a natural ally.
Nuclear power today contribute only 2-3 percent of the total energy in India. Even if we buy 10-12 vintage nuclear plants with 30 years old technology which are not going to work ( ENRON is the best example) nuclear power will contribute only 10 percent of total energy needs. Energy production is not the isuue. The issue is to destroy Indian's capability to have nuclear weapons to defend India against Pakistan and China. USA wants to reduce India to Thailand or Kenya, that is the whole purpose of the 123 Agreement. Since 1974, India has received every type of nuclear technology ( as a result it is now self sufficient) from the USSR and Russia. India does not need USA at all regarding nuclear energy. USA did nothing during the last 60 years to help India to industrialize, USSR did. USA has created the Muzzahidins, Taliban, Khalistanis, Al-Queada to destroy India. USa gave weapons to Pakistan to attack India in 1965. In 1971, USA was about to attack India to save Pakistan. Since 9/11 USA gave more than $7 Billions worth of weapons to Pakistan, which is a NATO ally of USA. Pakistan has received every type nuclear weapons and missiles from China without any objection from USA. US Economy is mortgaged to China; if China today cash its $500 Billion the Dollar will collapse immediately. So Do not expect any help from USA regarding China or Pakistan. But USA needs India to sell its outdated nuclear plants. Ultimately India will be cheated ( as ENRON did to India) and India wil
Nuclear power today contribute only 2-3 percent of the total energy in India. Even if we buy 10-12 vintage nuclear plants with 30 years old technology which are not going to work ( ENRON is the best example) nuclear power will contribute only 10 percent of total energy needs. Energy production is not the isuue. The issue is to destroy Indian's capability to have nuclear weapons to defend India against Pakistan and China. USA wants to reduce India to Thailand or Kenya, that is the whole purpose of the 123 Agreement. Since 1974, India has received every type of nuclear technology ( as a result it is now self sufficient) from the USSR and Russia. India does not need USA at all regarding nuclear energy. USA did nothing during the last 60 years to help India to industrialize, USSR did. USA has created the Muzzahidins, Taliban, Khalistanis, Al-Queada to destroy India. USa gave weapons to Pakistan to attack India in 1965. In 1971, USA was about to attack India to save Pakistan. Since 9/11 USA gave more than $7 Billions worth of weapons to Pakistan, which is a NATO ally of USA. Pakistan has received every type nuclear weapons and missiles from China without any objection from USA. US Economy is mortgaged to China; if China today cash its $500 Billion the Dollar will collapse immediately. So Do not expect any help from USA regarding China or Pakistan. But USA needs India to sell its outdated nuclear plants. Ultimately India will be cheated ( as ENRON did to India) and India wil
RE:Raman is a traitor just like the Pagriwala PM.
by Sahadevan KK on Aug 20, 2007 01:27 PM Permalink
The Left is committed to people of India. So they are doing constructive politics for India's valuable future. People know today about the nuclear deal because the increased strength of the Left. They atleast stayed it for a public debate. BJP liked US to be a natural ally.
(con) The time your Indain start to look after your poors, the time India will become a great country. Thank you for your attention. A friendly foreigner
(con)Does India want to catch up to China? Then let India communism gov India for 20 years.In these 20 years, India will build more road, invest more in argriculture, basic education and medicare. In these 20 years, India can lift 200 to 300 millioms of poor to have reasonable life. In these 20 years, India will lift country's literacy rate up to 90% and in these 20 years Inida will get more respect in international areana. At the momnet, India has got into a died corner. India's development only concentrated on IT or a few high tech industries such pharm. This will not benefit vast poor people and this will not improve Inidan as whole. What is the communism? Communism is everybody having same right, same status and benefiting same. Communism in India will distroy caste system which is most disgusting humanright abusing system in the world. The caste system make India shameful even you guy still think you are democratic. Corruption happens in any social system, it happans in communism China but it happens more in so called democratic India. However, how you deal with corruption matters more. See what China has done to these corrupted officers no matter how high they are. See what you have done in India. Communist like other parties does make mistake (cultural revolution) but they corrected quickly. How quick India can eliminate caste system in the current political environment? Those communism bashers, I guarrantee you are either high caste or a few rich rats. The time your
RE:Communism will save India
by soumik kalita on Aug 21, 2007 03:01 AM Permalink
Communism has been wiped out of the world. I am surprised of your knowledge about China which has been termed as one of the most corrupt nations of all times. Tienanmen square is part of recent history and not a tale of ancient brutality or Nazi history. Communists party members in China as well as in India have minted millions in the name of getting justice to the poor. I wonder how many poor people have benefited from the communist rule in Kerala, West Bengal or the poverty stricken Tripura. Communism is foregone chapter in old USSR, it is a matter of time it will be wiped out of China. People who support China are also supporters of its aggression which caused the brutal murder of thousands of Indian soldiers. The red Chinese cannot be believed by anyone, they have betrayed the trust of many countries and have brutally suppressed voices of freedom in their countries and the Naxalites who are communists follow the same rule. The communists are trying to come to power by proxy means and because of the stupidity of idiots in the NDA their designs were successful. It is time we throw out the likes of Prakash Karat and Sitaram Yechury from the fabric of Indian politics and if we do not do it now our future will be bleak. Communism has bred more nepotism than any democratic society,erstwhile eastern bloc and North Korea now are starking examples. Even Cuba has a brother of a dictator in chair today. Communists are never patriotic to any nation.
RE:Communism will save India
by Vishnu on Aug 20, 2007 12:59 PM Permalink
The communists could not do anything in WB for the last 30 years. Its a funny to talk about ruling India for 20 years. I pity u.
RE:Communism will save India
by David Dak on Aug 20, 2007 01:24 PM Permalink
If that is the case, it will be either Indian communist has not learnt more from Chinese communist or because of other political opponent's dragging.
RE:RE:Communism will save India
by Sahadevan KK on Aug 20, 2007 01:30 PM Permalink
Dear David Dak, Ruling Congress and Oposition BJP say these things because they have to foolish poor and innocent people for 100 years or more.
People like very much West Bengal Communist Govt. It is a world record that countinuously rule for last 30 years through Democracy.
RE:Communism will save India
by starlee on Aug 20, 2007 08:12 PM Permalink
David Mr David wherever you are from please dun put your head in INDIAS matters . And we never have to learn a single thing from china where people and their ideas and held. And we exactly know what China wants and all they want is to stop Indian progress at any Cost . Havent this "Brainless Creatures" got enough after stealing our religious believes and our martial arts (YEAH!!Shaolin Kung Fu is an Imitation of KALARIPAYATTU,which u would probably have never heard oF).
You know why India is now miles away behind China even though they were at same level in 1949 (India actually better of in that time)? It is communism in China saved China and developed China. A big and poor country like China (and India) need communism to look after vast poor people. Centralised gov can put money where needs such as basic infrastructures, argriculture, education and medicare. Chinese gov did these things in decades before 1978's economic reform. Without such development in that period, China would not achieve rapid growth in last 20 years. A lot of Indian people do not know and understand this. Most people only see the development in last 20 years in China but they failed to notice and understand one of the most important facts - China has developed a solid fundation before she took off in 1980s, that is reasonablly strong argriculture, heavy and light industries and most importantly a high literacy rate among the population. Such fundation allowed China to start reform from countryside (bottom to top) vs India's top to bottom (IT only). Such bottom to top development benifited most poor people in the first few years of reform in China but such development has not happened in India. China's achievement should be credited to Chinese communism and gov. Even now, Chinese communism are still the main political force from the gov. to companies' top management bodies. Those people thinking that Chinese communism has died are dreaming. Do India want to catch up(con
RE:Communism will save India
by Hansraj Chakraborty on Aug 20, 2007 12:58 PM Permalink
ANOTHER COMMUNIST FROM INDIA SHOUTING FOR CHINA.
Mr. DAVID, why dont you go and stay in china ? All the INFORMATION coming out from china about her economic progress are infact "state controlled". No one knows the real picture in China. VISIT the WEST & NORTH-WEST China to get a the real story !!!
Finally, Mr. Raman, keep it up. Your articles are real eye openers for less educated anti-communist like me.
RE:Communism will save India
by David Dak on Aug 20, 2007 01:38 PM Permalink
If you want to see real pictures of modern China, go there and see youself. "state controlled"? You must be joking. If you can not go to China, search those western countries webs and those finacial institutions' webs see what they are talking about China. Come out of the wall and see the sky.
RE:Communism will save India
by Vishnu on Aug 20, 2007 01:52 PM Permalink
Do u think that what is happening in China is according to 'Communism'. Communism never encourages having 2 extremes of life. communism is dead in China. Its not Communist China, it Colonial China.
RE:Communism will save India
by David Dak on Aug 20, 2007 04:11 PM Permalink
That is your illusion. Chinese communism is never dead. The communism is still controlling China, including economy, military, media, education and even religion. Chinese communism is different from USSR's or Eastern Europen. The reasons that Chinese one can survive is that Chinese communists do not concentrate on idiology but people's and country's wellbeing. If you have population's support, you will survive.
RE:Communism will save India
by Vishnu on Aug 20, 2007 01:05 PM Permalink
I had been to China 6 months back an I could see the 2 extremes of life- rich and poor. There are lot people who dont have food for even one time in a day. There are lot of backward areas which look like a remote village in Bihar. China is more like a colonial state now. There is no socialism.
