I am happy to see that rediff has brought out the other side of the viewpoint.
I sincierly believe that this deal must be accepted if the same is in national interest. However,I am quite ok if the deal is altogether scrapped or re-negotiated if the same is not in national interest.
One should beware of USA, it was never our friend. It did nothing to industrialize India. Is there a single industry or projects in India where USA gave its technology? It gave ENRON, who run away with Rs.6300 Crores from the Industrial Development Bank of India. It helped Pakistan to attack India in 1965. It was about to attack India in 1971 to save Pakistan. It has created Muzzahidins, Talibans and Khalistanis to destroy India. USA wants India without nuclear weapons. This treaty is a trick to do that. Unfortunately we have a liar, a traitor as our Prime Minister.
RE:Beware of USA
by Frankly Speaking on Aug 19, 2007 07:15 PM Permalink
Unfortunately, you have been fed with fallacious information and brain washed to hate to the extent you are using harsh language and unsavoury remarks against gentle man prime minister. People like you end up as inflammatory tools in the hand of unscrupulous politicians.
There are pros and cons in signing the 123 Agreement with US but the developments going on with lefts after their threat to withdraw is not a good sign for India.What it indicates the parliamentary system in India is so weak that for a mere topic a running GOVT can fall anytime.This is also a bad sign for any future coalition GOVT in India.All important National and Foreign policies to be taken should be discussed and voted in Parliament itself and decided that they can be implemented or not.If its defeated there its okay.Had this 123 agreement defeated in US Congress there wouldn't have been any problem for Bush govt there as whats happening here in India.let the Parliament decide.But in India its a prestige issue for all the Govt in power.Let the Parliament discuss this matter and should have power to make it through and defeat it.This UPA Govt is very weak but India is not at all prepared for an election right now.It will have another hung Parliament and all the political parties know about it.Now it has become a prestige issue for Dr.Manmohan Singh,who somedays back dared lefts to withdraw support,and his Madam Sonia Gandhi to play it safe.There can be a "you win we win situation" for both left and UPA but this 123 deal will be affected.US is playing it safe and watching the developments but they are bound with their foreign policy.They will safeguard their interest first whether its India or any other country.Its really a bad luck for India.
RE:Will UPA GOVT Fall ?
by India Fan on Aug 19, 2007 07:30 PM Permalink
It was dumb to issue a dare to people who are contributing almost 20% of MP's to constitute a majority.
RE:RE:Will UPA GOVT Fall ?
by jesus dn on Aug 19, 2007 09:26 PM Permalink
The question is what role are we(Indians) want to play towards Americans. Do we want to become friends(on equal terms and respectable, not being silent always, but questioning things at times)or we want to silent follower(like a slave follows its masters)? India for years have the traditions where the young (mostly females)didnt have the rights(culture) of questioning the elders in the family, followers of Gandhi hardly questioned him, blind following of leaders was the norm. Indians even today dislike making questions or objections to popular beliefs. We think it smart to allay with the flow. Americans on the other hands encourages debates, they questions and try to convince them in and out. So when the left are raising questions on 123, many of us getting furious coz we dont like people question us. Why can India have open debates on TV, on university campus, on senate where Sonia, Karat, Advani, Mayawati, etc come and have healthy debate and put forward their points in support and against this treaty ? Why cant we read the treaty ? Why can the Indian nuclear scientists debate ? Why cant Amrtya Sen on one side and Dr.Bhgwati on another side debate? Debating, questioning is healthy sign, it will enrich democracy. All we do is quarrelling mostly. When we dont have anything constructive to speak we disrupts others. We should appreciate left for raising issues, they may be wrong but they have the right to question. We shouldnt negatively criticise them but listen and the best b
RE:RE:RE:Will UPA GOVT Fall ?
by jesus dn on Aug 19, 2007 09:37 PM Permalink
the best brains from capitalist world should convince the so called hated commies.
Now though its a fashion to blame the left, bjp or any for us. We must realise capitalism alone cant solve all problems of society. Socialism alone cant solve all either. Both has some good points, some bad points. 40 years of socialism may nt be bad but it was in the wrong hands. Neheru was a capitalist agent with a socialist mask. Similarly a hardcore capitalist country like USA has far more sensitive attitudes towards the poor and have nts.Their progress is mostly inclusive not exclusive. Warrent Buffet can make huge money with the help of capitalist systems, thats nothing wrong, in fact great but he also can donate a huge chunk for social cause. Having the ability to earn money is one thing and luxury beyond limit is another thing. No matter how much progress we make, Indian bussiness tycoons are far behind to match their us counterparts. Philanthropy is big part of us society. We pick the wrong stuffs easily but we hardly bother to pick the brighter sides of capitalist systems, we spend our energy in blaming the communists. India needs both capitalist parties like cong,bjp and parties of poor like cpm, cpi etc. It will always keeps things in balance till we evolve into mature and sensitive capitalist society.
I agree, there should be open debate on the deal. But it presupposes, all parties participate objectively. Objectivity is the last thing for BJP & the leftists. BJP is trying to gain electoral benefits. Before they saw the deal, they started opposing it. After seeing the deal, they had kept quite for a couple of days and then two half baked politicians - Arun Shourie & Jaswant Sinha started blabbering with the sole motive of scoring brownie points for electoral benefits. So far the leftists are concerned, they are guided by anti Americanism and pro China considerations. Chinese leaders must be smiling at the present discomfiture of of the UPA government. If one tries to analyse the pluses and minuses of the deal, one must ask what are the interests of India and the US. Answer is India gets unlimited supply of nuclear power, which is likely to reduce our dependance on energy from middle east will be reduced & that gives us more freedom to deal with them. The equlibrium will not be disturbed by the US as they requre India's friendship. If we go for nuclear test, the outcome is uncertain, but it cannot be worse than performing a test in the absence of deal. Gap between our 2 tests were 24 years. Probably next will be 15 years from now during which time our benefit will be enormous. US's interst is to have India on their side. If we go with that without bending back, what's wrong? Can we get something without giving something? Today India is too strong to be bullied.
RE:AN OPEN DEBATE ON NUCLEAR DEAL
by Analyst on Aug 19, 2007 06:47 PM Permalink
Yes, BJP / NDA is playing anti-national politics in this issue. Anyway expected from BJP / NDA leaders. They cant do anything positive for the country except Bajpayee Ji all are worst.
RE:AN OPEN DEBATE ON NUCLEAR DEAL
by P Zipk on Aug 19, 2007 06:36 PM Permalink
Unlimited supply of power? Untrue. The most optimistic guess is just 10% of our needs.
The US may need India today, but history tells us that the US govt is very untrustworthy. All these years the US supported the Pakis knowing fully well the Pakis are training and funding terrorists against India.
India can still be bullied and it is still being bullied. The US wants to encircle China by using India and Pak and Afghanistan. I don't know if it such a good idea to play these games.
RE:AN OPEN DEBATE ON NUCLEAR DEAL
by India Fan on Aug 19, 2007 07:22 PM Permalink
You are dead right, just 10% (that too is an optimistic figure), worse still it will benefit only Industrialists, its not for the common man.
RE:AN OPEN DEBATE ON NUCLEAR DEAL
by Baalu Radhakrishna on Aug 19, 2007 06:32 PM Permalink
Hello Sankar it is natural for BJP to gain electoral benefits. The CPM is hypocrite and at the cost of Indias security interests it may even give up the objection with in few days only to stall BJP gaining from the withdrawal of support to UPA govt BJP is more honest and sincere in opposing the deal than CPM
RE:AN OPEN DEBATE ON NUCLEAR DEAL
by vikas sethi on Aug 19, 2007 11:09 PM Permalink
Why is it natural for BJP to oppose the deal. Doesn't India come before everything else??????
They have nothing much to oppose. The present deal is atleast 40% better than the one they were willing to sign.
Many of you on this forum seem to approve this deal because a.commies are against it, then it must be good. b.Manmohan Singh is a nice guy, it must be good. c. BJP is against it, me the "secularist" (pseudo) must oppose BJP.
Many of you are in the US and you want to see good relation with the US. I too am in the US and want what is good for the both US and India. But knowing the US foreign policies,it is very hard for me to believe the US is pro-India all of a sudden.
1. The US President has to "certify" the good behavior od India every year to the congress. Isn't that humiliating for a great country? 2. This deal was not done as an agreement between 2 equal partners. The US always wanted to bring India under NPT. This accomplishes that and some big corporations get to make billions. 3.In the future US can pull out with no reason or rhyme. When they do, all the technology, reactors, hardware, software is gone. 4. The US can then force the NSG to stop working with India. That means Russians can't supply either. 5. There is no technology transfer in the deal. India is a "buyer" from the west forever. 6. Even at the height of the operations, these reactors will not provide more then 10% of our needs. Is the tag "client state" worth it? 7. This deal with the US will make the Russians and Chinese to look at suspiciuosly. China who cares, but Russia? Can India trust US when the time comes?
RE:A voice of dissent on this forum!
by ashok y on Aug 19, 2007 09:17 PM Permalink
Good point...... and also we can not loose our old friend russia for foxy US.... I feel it is better do friendship with china than US. 1972 war with china is our mistake and nehrus miscaliculation.
RE:A voice of dissent on this forum!
by India Fan on Aug 19, 2007 07:34 PM Permalink
US after bombing Hiroshima, Nagasaki does not have any right to monitor the Nuclear capability. They have the biggest stockpile of missiles, which can bomb the entire planet earth several times.
No, we do not need their certification for our moral character, they should check their moral fiber first, they seriously lack ethics.
this party is a real cancer to our country. they opposed computarisation. and conducted strikes when Rajiv Gandhi introduced computers in india by tellin that it will create un employment
