This man , Manmohan has either gone crazy or he is extremely clever. He must be stopped Communists must withdraw support. He will sell India and giving wrongf information to people Remove Manmohan and save India!
RE:Manmohan is selling India
by Prem Mohan on Aug 18, 2007 09:11 AM Permalink
Correct! I hope the Communists have the courage to do something instead of merely talking big.
RE:Manmohan is selling India
by antiCongress antiBJP on Aug 18, 2007 09:34 AM Permalink
He is so afraid, because he never got before this kind of support.
We cannot think any other political party can do it.
RE:Manmohan is selling India
by Tejas Kothari on Aug 18, 2007 10:00 AM Permalink
Dear Mr Kaushal communist, change your mind set. think of future read the text carefully.
Nuclear Energy is good. I am sure our scientists are working on techniques that are totally indigenous and depend entirely on internal resources. However, I do not understand why a gigantic effort is not being put into R&D for harnessing Solar Energy. Instead, we are becoming very good at building rocktes to put bombs on places thousands of miles away.
This is one question we all need to address.Infact,we need to ask ourselves,has any nation ever become great by agreeing to be subservient to some other power?The West as a whole and US in perticular always heaped insult on Finland as a vassel of former USSR,although the Finns remained neutral,not joining NATO in the era of 'cold war'.The ever innovative Finns swallowed all that insult while all the time working hard in different areas of electronics technology which were not easily accessible to them from US or their European neighbours.Finnish cos came out with many many innovative and astounding industrial electronic products even as far back as the 1980s.Yet the West never gave them a second look.After the collapse of the cold war phantom,the Finns silently surged ahead stride after giant stride even as HP,Xerox,Motorola,Intel hogged all the tech limelight.Now the whole world knows Nokia is!!Now,can India hope to be a great nuke-tech nation after signing the subservient 123 Deal?After agreeing to submit report card on each and every activity you contemplate,do you still believe that you will be able to carry out any meaningful development activity.As in an individuals life,even for nations all learning and great leaps forward happen only when one struggles and strives with one's own wit rather than clutching at straws in the wind,as is the way of the 123 Deal!When India embarked on Fast Breeder technology,the French and Germans smirked,jeered and laughed us off!!
RE:Can India be a great nation after 123 Deal?
by Prem Mohan on Aug 18, 2007 08:28 AM Permalink
A final question. When can we expect the fast breeder reactors to be operational?
RE:RE:Can India be a great nation after 123 Deal?
by BHASKARAN GANESHAN on Aug 18, 2007 08:34 AM Permalink
Mohan, You do not get the point. We may not have nuclear power at all, but we cannot let ourselves to be dictated by US. Necessity is the mother of all innovations and discoveries. Alright this is the question of Uranium, but the least we can now do is develop ourselves into good bargainers.
RE:Can India be a great nation after 123 Deal?
by Prem Mohan on Aug 18, 2007 09:06 AM Permalink
Of course we should be good bargainers. But a bargain implies compromise and give-and-take. Do the leftists seriously think that the Soviet Union supported India without extracting its pound of flesh?
It is the same with the United States. We have to look at our own national needs. And in this case the PM seems to have got a good bargain. But the Left and the BJP oppose him on purely political grounds.
Finally, the question of the US dictating to India is not clarified. India can diversify its procurement of nuclear reactors and equipment. There are other countries waiting to supply once the NSG clears the deal. Much of the fear of US dictation stems from our inherent anti-Americanism.
RE:Can India be a great nation after 123 Deal?
by MANMADA GURU on Aug 18, 2007 08:30 AM Permalink
Well said, on the other hand the west would be a major detractor on all activities that wwould be carried out, directly and indirectly will be able to stop anything and everything. We already have ministers who could be bribed to go on a certain issue in the way an individual or an industrialist or a country or MNC. The enemy within is the minister,who would do anything except see the Ministry grow and country develop, like the present Info Minister of DMK.
RE:Can India be a great nation after 123 Deal?
by Prem Mohan on Aug 18, 2007 08:36 AM Permalink
If our Ministers can be bribed, that is our own weakness. Why blame the West for everything? Everyone knows that the root cause of our troubles is corruption. Outsiders cannot solve this problem for us.
RE:Can India be a great nation after 123 Deal?
by BHASKARAN GANESHAN on Aug 18, 2007 09:02 AM Permalink
The factor has already been taken into consideration by the West, whereas we have not taken that into consideration. You got the point, we fail to look at our reflection. West is capable and confident of making dents whenever required. I mean the west is trying to exploit our weakness that is the corruption. Get into the crux of issue, i.e. corruption and exploitation of circumstances.
RE:Can India be a great nation after 123 Deal?
by Prem Mohan on Aug 18, 2007 08:27 AM Permalink
There are two aspects here:
1. This agreement has nothing to do with our own efforts to develop technology. We can continue our own efforts. Nuclear technology is not the only field. There are other spheres of technical and scientific acheivement. But the results are rather thin on the ground.
(2) Our PSU type agencies have swallowed the nation's resources for 60 years. The ordnance factories employ more that half a million people. Where are the results? What happened to the LCA and the MBT? Why do we have to import simple things like howitzers? Why is our present nuclear generation capacity only a pathetic 3,700MW?
The nuclear business is controlled by the nuclear haves. Perhaps that is why we have to go into this agreement. But what is stopping us from technical and scientific developments in other fields, particularly with great Navratna companies such as HAL, BHEL etc?
RE:Can India be a great nation after 123 Deal?
by manoo kaushal on Aug 18, 2007 09:06 AM Permalink
you are wrong ! I challenge you to have open debate with me on this agreement ...you are twisting facts like Manmohan is bluffing parliament!
RE:RE:Can India be a great nation after 123 Deal?
by Prem Mohan on Aug 18, 2007 09:08 AM Permalink
I have posed the questions. Why don't you answer them? Is that not a debate? If I am wrong, I will be corrected. On the other hand, if you are wrong, you will also learn something. What is your challenge?
Why is US so interested in talking to India on nuke tech? Because, despite 33 years of isolation, India has marched ahead and developed advanced nuke technology all by herself, unlike South Africa, Israel, Pak and N.Korea all of whom got by clandestine means.There will be many Indians who will ridicule this, but the silent facts alone are reality,not loud shouts and ugly jeers!Besides, India's non-proliferation record is something that none of the five so-called weapon states can match.All of them,including the US,have stains of infidelity disfiguring their robes all over!Now the US is worried that if India is left isolated for another decade or two,she will attain nuke-tech superiority unmatchable!Why?For,India still invest fairly handsomely in civil nuke research and targeting a concept which would make its nuke power source permanently out of US control as also the entire world!!That is the fear which is catalizing US to attract India to come under its ambit by signing a subservient treaty now when she is still labouring with the natural uranium processes.Read the 123 Deal carefully.Once India operationalizes it,she can do no meaningful nuke-tech R&D worth the name.This, each and every scientist in AEC,BARC,et al knows very well.But for the frustrated scientists the silver lining is that after the Deal,Indian sscientists will no longer be subject to 'apartheid' in force now!!They will happily get spirited away by the US & European nuke labs!That is one of US's plans!!
1. India gets access to International Nuclear Technology, Uranium and Financing. - Good for India YES. We get N-Energy. Low cost.
2. Implication for Defence: Reactors kept outside safeguard can produce Atomics. But we cannot use the reactors under the 123 to produce bombs. - Good for India: YES. We can produce bombs from our Indian reactors. Defense is not compromised.
3. Can India Test? YES. India can test N-bombs - but the 123 co-operation will be cut off. - Is this good?? Well - if India tests with or without 123 co-operation is cut off anyway. The treaty has a clause that states that if India tests - they will look at the extenuating circumstances. So should Pakistan or China test then India can too.
4. Dependence on Foreign Technology: Does 123 increase our dependence on US?? No - unless we buy only US Technology. India needs to stock enough Urainum and spares for 10 years. To ride out any embargo.
The 123 will give us uranium to kickstart out Fast breeder reactors using Uranium and then thorium.
On the whole the 123 is a GREAT treaty for India. As long as the indians stockpile enough spares and raw fuel and learn to design the reactors and manage them. It gives us electric energy.
The real enemies of India are the Communists with their BLIND opposition. They seek to DENY progress and low cost Electricity to millions of Indians who need it.
Not surpising from a party which actually roots more for China than
RE:What does 123 mean for India?
by Satish Kumar on Aug 18, 2007 05:33 AM Permalink
I totally agree with you. CPI and BJP have to understand that 123 agreement stands void if we test nuclear weapons. So why not have 123 agreement going as long as we conduct any testing?
RE:What does 123 mean for India?
by Venkatraman Sunder on Aug 18, 2007 05:51 AM Permalink
If we carefully analyse the document, it has enough clauses to safeguard India. Most important is that India cannot remain in isolation and explore global uranium resource to satisfy our power needs. With regard to defence requirement, whether 123 or not, if India tests bomb, it will again go with sanctions and condemnation by world community. Hence, remaining out of 123 is not solution. Finally, whether Manmohan Singh is a puppet PM or not, communists certain are puppets of the ideologies of Ex-Soviet Russia and China. Whether the communism practiced in their countries have changed much or not, our guys remain the same 50 years old ideology that labour is great, no support for industries, and so on. These communists support China and China never need the support of these guys. It is true that if there a rain in China and Russia, our guys hold umbrella, no wonder they are called "Umbrella Communists". Let us unite to throw these guys out of India.
RE:What does 123 mean for India?
by Vishal on Aug 18, 2007 06:01 AM Permalink
Mr Vivek ..Have you gone thru the text of 123 Agreement ..pl first read the full test before commenting...bye the way where did u go thru the text of 123 Agreement
RE:puppet singh PM OF INDIA
by Yadagiri Madhav on Aug 18, 2007 07:00 AM Permalink
mr. sanjay chawala on what basis u have mentioned "puppet of BJP" ?? if u feel ur correct but the ultimate "puppet" will be Mr.Singh only...because we all know the REAL FACT.
Is there a difficulty for PTI to address the United states of America as United states of America or simply usa.What does the current blindly followed acronym 'US' mean.Do we write India as INDIA ?.Standards should evolve from understanding and realisation of strong fundamentals. sincerely,achutha Prasad.
