RE:pls confirm
by laughingbuddha on Apr 24, 2007 06:07 AM Permalink
poor Sc earlier all sc was eaten up by DHOBI community and now OBC will eat up their seats. good one.
Some people have been driven out of their homes and are living as refugees in their own country.
Some people have been helped in the last 60 years to overcome the wrongs they were subjected to in the past.
There is a lot of noise about one group and there is hardly a politician that talks about the other. Is it because who they are, the number of votes they bring to the table, or because the oppressors in each case happen to be? You be the judge, O reader!
There is nothing to celebrate here.. There will be real victory only when there are NO castes. People who are celebrating here are just opportunists who want to benefit both ways.. and keep their caste identities.
Based on the evils of the Manu system and in an effort to promote equality, the government announced the following reservation scheme: 1) Brahmins would get reservations in politics, business ownership and employment 2) Kshathriyas would get reservations in education, business ownership and employment 3) Vaishyas would get reservations in education, politics and employment 4) The rest would get reservations in education, politics and business ownership.
In the landmark announcement, the government also announced no reservations for Muslims (for 600 years) and Christians (for 400 years) who have ruled India since 1000 years continually.
RE:Govt. announces reservations for brahmins!
by Black Stallion on Apr 24, 2007 06:03 AM Permalink
When there is no reservation for muslims who ruled for 600 yrs or christians who ruled for 400 yrs how can there be any reservation for bramins who ruled india before muslims or christians for 1000 years. People have judged and voted bramin parties out !
RE:Govt. announces reservations for brahmins!
by Black Stallion on Apr 24, 2007 06:16 AM Permalink
FYI bramins were too cunning to be rulers.They did not want Democles sword hanging on their heads. So they all were advisers to rulers. either way the bramin won out !
RE:Govt. announces reservations for brahmins!
by on Apr 24, 2007 06:46 AM Permalink
If Brahmins were that cunning then how come they are not the richest community now. Its the Kshatriyas and other communities that are richer and hold a lot of land? I guess you are just one more anti-hindu guy who spouts venom at anything that is Hindu. Brahmins are always the only ones identified with hinduism as they were the strongest bastions and never relented and would never relent to muslim/christian pressure to convert.
RE:Govt. announces reservations for brahmins!
by Black Stallion on Apr 27, 2007 05:15 AM Permalink
Hey its becoming fashionable for bramins to brand any one not agreeing with them either muslim or hindu! They think this gives every one the idea that all hindus are with them ! FYI by on the guys who oppose bramins the most are the hindus . The muslims and the christians have come out of the caste clutches so the bramin is no problem to them at all ! It is the non bramin who is smarting under braminism with no way out. So he opposeses him all the time.
Why does govt want to kill the competiontion ??Why not arrange for proper coaching for the backwards ? If they get into IIms & IITs thru reservation then thats a compromise with the quality. Rather than that, help shud be given through other ways.
Al last, the majority people are awakened to protest against judiciary which will put them accountable to Parliament and majority people of India. The same old brhaminical trick will not work again in India. So legislature should use their power to implement the laws just by simply keeping the SC where they stand. I just pity on those who claim casteless society do not understand what has their invention of caste made to the real inhabitance of India. Shame on them. I am sure judiciary is going to pay heavily just because of the bhraminical minded people.
RE:Thanks Mr.Arjun Singh and Mr.Karunanidhi
by Prashanth Anantharaman on Apr 24, 2007 05:10 AM Permalink
Dear Cheran U r the true result of Karunanidhi, V P Singh and now the Arjun Singh. U have decided to go ahead with crutches...Good Luck!
RE:Thanks Mr.Arjun Singh and Mr.Karunanidhi
by Kumar Bhargava on Apr 24, 2007 06:21 AM Permalink
Oh. Come on Prashant, Avinash et all. Our Cheran is from Tamil Nadu (we can make out from his name). Tamilians (other than Brahmins) need quota in anything and everything. Watch for a few years. People in TN will fight for a separate level of exam for IIT and IIM. Or they may fight to answer 1/3 of the questions and ask for full marks, cause 95 % percent of his state people are holding some backward certificate and cannot face the same level of English or Science as other states. The only population that is fighting in the merit category are the Brahmins (who have moved there from North or from other Southern States).
RE:Thanks Mr.Arjun Singh and Mr.Karunanidhi
by Black Stallion on Apr 24, 2007 06:19 AM Permalink
Atleast dalits want clutches but the bramins want another man's back to ride on. too lazy even to walk !
RE:Thanks Mr.Arjun Singh and Mr.Karunanidhi
by on Apr 24, 2007 04:54 AM Permalink
Thanks to reservations which produce intellectual pygmies like you, cheran, that u can't comprehend simple things. SC has not rejected reservations. It just wanted more data. This 'brahminical crap' that u are babbling is utter non-sense.
RE:[object]
by Black Stallion on Apr 24, 2007 06:23 AM Permalink
Who kept the dalits as intellectual pigmys? U want me 2 quote vedas for this as proof ?
RE:Thanks Mr.Arjun Singh and Mr.Karunanidhi
by avinash kanodia on Apr 24, 2007 05:12 AM Permalink
Mr Cheran, the world runs on merit, not reservation. Caste based reservation is a form a racism and should be condemned by all means. Economy based reservation should be used instead. Why do people like you favour caste based reservation over economic, are you too rich? Most people enjoying the benefits of reservation i have come across were indeed quite rich.
RE:RE:Thanks Mr.Arjun Singh and Mr.Karunanidhi
by Black Stallion on Apr 24, 2007 06:21 AM Permalink
Racists telling that caste based reservation is recism ! is this the latest addition to wikepedia ?
Its easy to say that OBC students should come with their own merits and compete with general category. But OBC students are in much terrible state then any general caegory students. They dont have exposure or proper guidance to move forward. Some dont even know what IIM and IIT's are and what their benefits are. Where as general students go through rigreous IIT, IIM preparation courses before they appear for the exams. Even if OBC's have knowledge and exposure they dont have the money to spend on these institutions and they are under tremendious pressure from their family to earn money. Many OBC students are not even able to complete IIM or IIT after they get selected and have to quit in the middle because they cant affort them. Not only there should be quota, but government should also help them financially throught the course.
We should remember that we are the one responsible for all the baclward class and we have to work together to bring them to our level now. Reservation is the only way to help uplift the backward classes and government should make sure that it should be used by people who deserve it. Family earning less than 1 lakh anually should come under the criteria and be able to use the quota system.
RE:RE:RE:Easy said than done
by WhoAmI on Apr 24, 2007 05:18 AM Permalink
Dear Sunil: You have made very relevant points about students that are disadvantaged including (a) lack of exposure (b) lack of guidance (c) lack of advanced training and (d) lack of money.
However, these disadvantages are not to be measured based on caste but based on (a) rural / urban (b) parents' education status (c) availability of educational resources and (d) financial stability of a person's family. Therefore, these privileges should be afforded to everyone that is so disadvantaged. Put in other words, Mr. Karunandhi's relatives should not be given these help while a poor brahmin student from a rural setting whose parents are not educated, should also be given these privileges.
Lastly, the help should come in the form of educational support through tuition in early phases on one's school life and financial support, so such students can compete on equal footing and not through reservations which 'rob' another student of his/her right.
RE:Easy said than done
by on Apr 24, 2007 04:47 AM Permalink
these are all excuses. so called upper caste face same problems.Whether they do a lot less than OBCs or just the same as the OBCs do, is something we don't know, and that's why Supreme Court is asking for more data. Sunil Pal, just like u offered ur opinion, i would offer mine - OBCs don't suffer as much as they are made out out to be. And my opinion is based on National sample survey data. yours probably based on hallucinations induced by marijuana.
RE:Easy said than done
by Prashanth Anantharaman on Apr 24, 2007 05:18 AM Permalink
If u dont have the proper guidance, ask for it....not the Reservation!Money is not linked to caste/religion. There r rich and poor everywhere(with OBCs/BC's/FC's/SC's/ST's/Muslim Dalits/Christian Dalits...oh god so many Categories...Thanks Arjun Singh!). Dont be in a soup defining rich and poor based on caste/religion just because u have a selfish motive of getting IN with Reservation!
Its a nice to see that Indians somehow started beleiving that they are more qualified than Americans. There is nothing wrong in dreaming. An American who is undergraduate is still 100 times better than any third world country master. Americans dont need to establish their superiority because they are. They dont need to tell people all the time that they are going to be superpower by such year because they are already a superpower. I am not surprised to see the arrogance of some Indians here because it happens when undeserving people get some recognition (though mainly for vsted interests of Americans only). Classic example is of Bangladesh's cricket captain who, after defeating India in WC started giving high headed interviews but we all know their real cricketing capabilities. India's case is no different. Sooner rather than later they will realise that they are and will remain third world country till then sweet dreams.
RE:Nice thoughts
by dell shawn on Apr 25, 2007 04:47 PM Permalink
You are mistaken, Mr.Watkins. Indians don't 'believe' they are the best. They 'know' that they are. Compare an engineering entrance examination paper of India (eg. IIT-JEE) with your SAT. There is a 95% chance that an American graduate will not be able to qualify the JEE. Indians are arrogant? It is your post reeks of arrogance. For you being a superpower means either meddling in the affairs of other countries or throwing you weight around. For us, it means happiness and prosperity of Indians. Why such a haughty attitude, buddy? Is it because you are white and we are brown? Defies logic. God, man!!! You need a crash course on reality. And lots of ice and sugar. Get up and get out for some chocolate ice cream (Or Pepsi? But you may not like it. Its got an Indian for its boss!). It will cool you and sweeten you. Namaste!
RE:Nice thoughts
by Neeraj Sinha on Apr 24, 2007 04:02 AM Permalink
"An American who is undergraduate is still 100 times better than any third world country master". Andrew, you are frustrated with your own failure in life. Basically, u're a loser.
RE:Nice thoughts
by venkat m on Apr 24, 2007 04:12 AM Permalink
doesn't matter if u r an American or one of those silly impersonators, but change ur subject to "Vile thoughts"!
RE:Nice thoughts
by avinash kanodia on Apr 24, 2007 05:22 AM Permalink
Some of the things you have said are true. But not that an american UG is better than masters. My point of view is that India does not have a good education system. But those who reach higher educational levels do so by competing with millions others. Therefore brilliant students enter system and brilliant people leave system, irrespective of the system itself. Because they are brilliant, they do reasonably well most of the time. This is unlike western countries where even morons can persue higher education if they wish to. They will be trained to do a particular job alright, but in a very limited sense. Remember, Indians can go anywhere in the world and work, no westener can ever come to india and settle down
Nice thought process. India's march- despite rolly-polly governments- is remarkable. But we still have to catch up on many issues. Thus a consolidated vision is required which I am sorry my country's polity lacks. It is not a question of USA or India, it is a question of humanity! It looks so horryfying to even think that hardly 40 years back, people of color were required to stand up and vacate the bus-seat for a white, whereas USA has been a great nation since inception!! But are you an American or just an intruder on this web-site!! Anyway, enjoy the Indian stuff here!
1) He has not mentioned the specific goals of the proposed reservations. The saying is 'if you don't know where we are going we would never get there.'Specically, what are the criteria which when fulfilled, the government can remove reservations? If we don't know these criteria, the reservations will go on till eternity, unless reverted by an armed and bloody revolution. 2) As we Mr. arjun Singh has not come up with any quantifiable criteria, there is no possibility for reducing the quota percentage in a phased manner. For example, if he thinks reservations are helpful in OBC development, ten years from now, there should be some OBC development, and quota percentage should automatically come down(if not zero percent but by some percentage figure). the way Arjun Singh has proposed reservations, I don't think there will be any possibility for that. Another example, reseravtions for SC/St were introduced 60 years ago. Is there absolutely no change in their status that we still have to have the same magical figure of 22.5%. 3)Why 27%. It's unfair to give quota on a basis of proportion in the total population. If that happens, then there is every chance that some of them(OBCs, SC/Sts) will come through general category, along with their own quotas, and their representation in a college or an organization will be more than their actual proportion in the population. If reservations have to be implemented, not more than 10 percent should be given to OBCs. If OBCs want to get their 'fair share' even after that, they can work harder and come through the general category. Who is stopping them?
Other things to be noted:
All upper caste people are very much keen that casteism is completely abolished. And caste based discrimination is illegal. all this talk in this forum by dalits and OBCs that upper caste still has a casteist attitude is nonsense.
also, vast majority of acts of atrocities on dalits have been committed by OBC, atleast for last several decades. Should they be rewarded for their behaviour? Definitely, not. Remember, this was the logic used by our constitution makers for SC/ST reservations. OBCs are definitely economically backward, affirmed even by Mandal Commision data, (though overall Mandal data is horrible).
Mark my word, what Congress/Arjun Singh is doing will doom India, or to some extent has already damaged that quite a bit.
