He also believes 30 years was a failed experiment. BUT YOU FEEL WE WERE CONSOLIDATING. IF YOU ARE RIGHT< THAN WHERE ARE THOSE GOVT. OWNED COMPANIES. I have listed quite a few. Had we generated plenty >> There was enough for all classes to share and grow PURELY ON COMPETITIVE BASIS and not on Govt gifted jobs.
Do you think when SHELL/IBM/ADOBE/MICROSOFT/GM?GE/TOYOTA/Hundai/HONDA/ SUZUKI go on a hiring spree they go the same way as is Done by Govt. Of India. They are not owned by UPPER CLASS.
I have said enough, if you can not understand what I am saying. I can not help anymore. God Bless us all.
Dear Dinesh http://www.divest.nic.in/pubdis_instate/tamilnadu.htm See this report on SLPE's by Govt of India own admission, out of 59 state run enterprises in TMIL NADU, only 9 declared Dividend.
How can such units grow/sustain and create new JOBS ( which we can even think of dividing between SC/ST/OBC/FC)
Similarly you can see status of SLPE's in other Southren states. Kerala got a double Whammy!! But Keralites were hard working, most of them made money in Gulf.
I wonder what makes you think that Tamil Nadu has great medical colleges ( It has few but not all) I already gave you picture of Capitation fee vs MBBS / and pass marks. Any Sane person should not like such Doctors to come out of India ( From all classes)
You are not talking of new RICH class, related to politicians / power, has money, kids are getting into crime and drugs and paying such high fees , becoming Doctors and engineers, getting plum Govt jobs. Do not think of SC/ST/OBC in isolation. Think of system where opportunists from ALL CLASSES are systematically weeded out IF THEY CAN NOT COMPETE!!!
I tell you if my own child was getting 40% marks, instead of sending him to RAMAIH college, I would have asked him to work as PIZZA delievery boy and do part time BA.
in the 50s and 60s,we were building on ensuring the strong foundations.they are holding us together. u r confusing urself between various things. the govt is involved in every sphere of activity. u try to put across the picture that some sections do not need govt,they will do well on their own.
RE:hi ashok
by ASHOK on May 02, 2007 03:54 PM Permalink
KELTRON >> Kerala eclectronics (State sector) where is it now. MELTRON >> Mharashtra Elctronics >> Where is it now. BEL Electronics >> where it stands now ITI >> Where it stands now.
I already stated fate of CCI / NTI Dear Friend in 1950 / 60's we were planning something, which doomed on the sands of time.
Had they grown, RESERVATION WOULD HAVE BEEN MEANING FULL SINCE GOVT. would have given more jobs in Govt sector. Now more jobs are being created in Private sector. That is hurting RESERVATION. Do you understand that.
I am repeatedly saying generate a system of plenty >> This is called a SELF SUSTAINING SYSTEM. Ours was a system which doomed. We went begging for world bank money, we privatised heavily , results are thre to be seen. Now you will say Private sector is in the hands of UPPER CLASS / FC what ever you mean. I will say , I do not care , more jobs are craeted, people are busy. Means less fighting amongst ourselves. I said 1950's Singapore and MUMBAI were same >> Yes that is fact. Face it. Now Singapore is far ahead of Mumbai or Chinnai ( I am not comapring Singapore with India) Fact is we do not have a single city which matches Singapore ( which has NO NATURAL RESOURCES>> Do we understand that)
RE:hi ashok
by rumba cardi on Sep 23, 2007 03:16 PM Permalink
got an accident a year before & got foot enjuiry & was operated by upper class doctor 7 still not able to walk as a negligence on a doctors part as he does not perform his operation well , & bill was in thousands ,so what is bad if resevation is being nade compulsory as upper caste doctorrs is also doing negligence on his part,now i believe that reservation is not a bad idea
The debate on reservation is a very emotional one with a clear divide between the pro and anti reservation lobby. It has become an issue of Us vs Them. In debating reservations let us answer 2 questions (1) Should there be reservation in education (2) If yes, at what level.
There can be no two views on the issue that every Indian is entitled to the same quality of education irrespective of caste. If to ensure this, reservation is necessary then so be it.
Ideally reservation should be provided during school education. The govt should increase the allocation for primary education manyfold. The corporates will willingly contribute to this provided there is transperancy and accountability. The socially weaker sections will initially be at a disadvantage but they should be provided special coaching free of cost to bring them on par with others. Once this is done, they will compete on equal terms with others.
At the same time the number of IITs and IIMs should be increased so thet more number of seats are available. To cite an example, in Maharashtra there was a common admission procedure for Engineering till a few years back. About 50% of seats were reserved for SC/ST/OBCs. Nobody used to complain about this because the number of seats available were more than the number of applicants.
So the ideal solution would be to increase the seats in Engineering and Medicine and standardise the quality of education so that there is no clamour for seats in elite institutions.
without Job >> Educated person can be anything ( Terrorist / Misguided / suicidal)
Before 1985 India had 2 models of cars, 2 models of scooters ( On the name of social Justice) >> We do not need cars.
Now almost 10 differrent companies with plants allover India, 10 million jobs , projected to grow to 25 Million by 2016 ( What it needed for Govt to do >>> Open up, come out from Shell)
Imagine jobs for Automobile engineers / mechanical Engineers / Sales / Marketting / Mechanics/ ..... list is long Tamilnadu has very significant car Industry, With jobs rolling in, do you think it is due to RESERVATION.
Dinesh is this the status in Medical college admission in Tamilnadu and Karnataka. It seems a person with 40% marks and 40 lach capitation fee is welcome to be MBBS. What sort of doctors they are ( SC/ST & FC >> All) Please help me understand what is the catch here. Refer to >>http://www.medicaleducationindiarussia.org/indian_univ.htm
Basic Requirement for Admission to Medical Colleges in India - Tamil Nadu & Karnataka
Capitation Fee collected - Rs. 25 Lakhs to Rs. 40 Lakhs Tuition Fees (every year) - Rs. 2.5 Lakhs to 3 Lakhs Aggregate marks to be obtained - 60 % (FC & BC) (Physics, Chemistry & Biology) - 40 % (SC / ST) in Tamil Nadu Aggregate marks to be obtained - 50 % (FC & BC) (Physics, Chemistry & Biology) - 40 % (SC / ST) in Pondicherry Service Charges of Rs.50, 000 to Rs. 1 Lakh to be paid in advance.
RE:Medical colleges in Tamilnadu & Karnataka
by bharat on May 02, 2007 09:30 AM Permalink
there is no capitation fees in IIT & IIM ...... they are premium institutionns of india. why should there be any reservations in these honourable institutes? why should there be any admissions in these institutes except merit and spoil the honor of these intititutes? government should list out the honourable institutes of india, in which admissions should be done ONLY on the basis of MERIT. to upkeep the high standard of these institutes.
RE:http://www.thesouthasian.org/archives/2006/success_of_reservation_tamil_n.html
by ASHOK on May 01, 2007 06:01 AM Permalink
I read through this article. Writer has to understand that South India is far ahead in spoken and written English as compared to North India. Earlier also I have written that missionary schools mushroomed in South India. I understand CSI ( Church of South India) has 2000 schools /130 colleges / 104 hospitals in South India states ( Andhra / Karnataka/Tamil Nadu/Kerala)
In order to give a counter reply DAV ( Dayanand Anglo Vedic ) schools were started in India to Keep up / Uphold Indian Culture as well as Western Scientific advancement. But due to lack of funding it is at around 700 schools in North India. That is the reason South Indians got a better integration to modern scientific / administrative knowledge. This lead to more and more jobs,and trend is continuing. But it seems you (Dinesh)and author that note believes it is all due to RESERVATION. But that is not the case any more. We are getting talent and competition from all over, and rather more of it is coming from Tier II cities ( from any part of India) Also Note that Punjab/Haryana had no refinery / No petrochemical plant /No nuclear plant for quite some time ( With the grace of Indian Politicians!!) Let Karnataka go back to teaching everything in KANNADA, Results will be visible in 25 years.
RE:http://www.thesouthasian.org/archives/2006/success_of_reservation_tamil_n.html
by rumba cardi on Sep 23, 2007 03:17 PM Permalink
got an accident a year before & got foot enjuiry & was operated by upper class doctor 7 still not able to walk as a negligence on a doctors part as he does not perform his operation well , & bill was in thousands ,so what is bad if resevation is being nade compulsory as upper caste doctorrs is also doing negligence on his part,now i believe that reservation is not a bad idea
whatever logic is shown,it is tough for people to accept it.u r convinced that u r being discriminated.compared to the actual discrimination that occurs,ur fears can be described as unfounded.
what is ur point?that i should stop posting? if u can think for urself,read this article and give ur comments,can u do that?
and ashok,please show me where i compared tamilnadu and karnataka.im not telling tamilnadu is singapore,but as a state that has been implementing reservations for obc s ,tamilnadu seems to be doing quite well.instead of showing where the southern states are lagging,u r telling about the achievements of gujarat.please show me where the southern states are lagging?
RE:hi vikas k patel
by ASHOK on Apr 30, 2007 03:22 PM Permalink
Dinesh I also believe Southren states are not lagging behind. My experience says South has had more missionary schools, so many people there learnt English well. Whereas this did not happen in Punjab / Haryana / Gujarat. Even than thses states are doing well. Last 20 years or so Haryana / Panjab invested heavily into English speaking public schools. Gujrat is now waking upto reality. But despite remaning localised these states ( Panjab / Haryana / Gujarat) did remarkably well and are amongst highest per capita income.Now they are going to move much faster. If Karnataka goes to implementing just KANNAD than they will feel the hit. ( To gain vote politicians preach such things but send their own children abroad)
Do not believe Reservation has done this wonder. When I compete with US/UK/AUS/NZ experts HEAD ON, I do not have any caste related issues. It is just professional competition. So is now happening in Modren India. As Young kids feel frustrated, what wrong they committed. Question is >> Why not create plenty of schools / plenty of colleges / plenty of Industry. Moreover Govt of India is not required to do that, GOI has to allow Private sector to do that. It is that simple.
I am repeating >> It is a question of plenty vs scaracity. If polititician had allowed massive investment in Industry than India was forced to have more educational institutes and under that scenario no one would have cried foul on RESERVATION issue. Why Politicians want to pack us as Sardines.
