Why a good percent of upper cast people are ahead. Did we seen in past. We (our preceders) have crushed the human and humanity. Sudra were human but we put big number of bars in their social life and enjoyed ours. We made their life hell, Life was like a hell to him. Even if they enters in our village they were supposed to killed. They have to keep on brush (Jharu) always with their heep because if they walk their footsteps should be cleaned. They were have to put a pot always in their neck. There are a number of reason to prove reservation right but you have to take time from your medical profession to read the history and understand the social structure of India. India have to work more to become US where everybody even a sweeper come by his car.
ancient india is collection of villages with small population in 100s ,with no scientific education system and also with no transport systems that have now come to use.hence the best way was to divide groups of people with different qualities in to respective occupation was done . as scientific education was not there best way was to learn from father as he sees daily hence there developed occupational castes . it was only and best way of division of labour tose dAYS IN THOSE DAYS .But with modern scientific education and transportation and information technology it is not relavent now and we have to change with that.ocs or so called upper castes adapted well . they have been giving their 50% share of food to others at their own expence ,the oter groups should respect that.But reservation is not the best way of eqating society as we a;ll see it today best way is to distribute economy means housing(apartments in good areas) with all funds for SCsSTs BCs FUNDS, good quality living expences for daily living , all education costs ,employment for what they are quallified . in that way no doubt all children can compete equally rather than begging for more reservation
I do not believe in reservation. Its now 60 years since we got liberated but our society still remains the same. Reservation in getting basic education is one thing. In professional courses and jobs, reservation is not required. The hight of injustice happens when the children and grandchildren of the reserved category keep on getting reservation. I have seen children of IAS officers getting the same reservation again. It has defeated the purpose and the creamy layer in the SC/ST are taking all the advantages and leaving their poor brothers alone.
WE ARE ALL SAME. EQUALLY HARRESSED AND HUMILIATED CONTINOUSLY BY GHORIS,GAZNIS,TIMURS,AURANGZEIBS,DAWOODS,SALEMS, SONIAS AND THEIR HINDU CHAMCHAS.
SO WE ARE ALL DALITS. DONT CHANGE THE LINE OF THINKING AGAINST THE BARBERIANS. THEY ARE HAVING NICEST AND DECENTEST TIME SINCE 1000ad. EVEN THEY WUD SHIVER TO LIVE UNDER THE LIKES OF GHOURIS AFZALS AND LADENS. THEY WUD KEEP THEM AWAY ON ONE HAND AND KICK US ON THE OTHER HAND.
RE:RE:WE ARE ALL DALITS.,
by syed kalim on Sep 22, 2007 05:00 PM Permalink
The opressed classes, the shudras were not humiliated by ghaznis or ghoris my friend. they were trounced humiliated by the upper castes. the devision of the hindu society was not made by aurangzeb. It was manu (manusmiriti) who categorized brahmins, kshatriyas, vaishnavas and shudras. Because of the atrocities of the upper castes, most of them had to convert to other religions. Now you cry? shameless You have to blame yourself.
RE:WE ARE ALL DALITS.,
by Ashish Ranjan on Sep 23, 2007 11:19 AM Permalink
mr. kalim, aurangzeb irrespective of whether one is upper caste or lower caste, he put hefty jajiya (the tax you have to pay , if u want to follow religion other than islam). And that way, got many poors converted to islam. forcibly converting them was his one man agenda. also, can u deny that practically even in islam, (irrespective of what u say) there are so many categories and one higher category/caste muslim will not marry lower caste muslim. So many muslim castes are there in the reservation list of govt, if u proclaim that there is no caste then even after hindreds and thousand of years of conversion, why your division of caste among yourself is there in islam. for proof, you just need to look at a matrimonial column in islamic section, which islamic caste bride/groom wants to marry outside of her/his caste. atleast hindus are more liberal *today* in terms of interactions and accepting fallibility of their old caste system , are open to debates, and mixing with greater vigour. but in islam , you stick to the dogma ; never tolerate the criticism that some age old belief need to be discarded now.
Well what happens when you have 50% of the seats to people who doesnt deserve .
As your self guys who support reservation..if it happens to you that " You dont get what was supposed to be for you and someone undserving gets it." Give it a thought.
RE:What is Reservation ?
by ra mc on Sep 22, 2007 05:52 PM Permalink
it is a real surprise that india is progressing inspite of having this reservation policy, well, any astrologer would probably predict that this india shining would be short lived.
RE:What is Reservation ?
by Srivathsan Krishnamoorthy on Sep 24, 2007 02:49 PM Permalink
yes, its a short live only.The real face will come very soon. Just I.T.&BPO's are not real development.
Its easily said! But when the statements are made without knowledge of the WHOLE , as regards what is in hinduism or in brahminism, what were the situations in the past 1000 years, OR is it a total misconception ,it is a sad 'one eyed deer' debate! 1)If a boss is unscrupulos and tortures, is the boss bad or system of service bad? 2)If the results of a democratic government is useless, is democracy bad or the politicians are bad? 3)If a doctor mishandles a patient to death, is the medical science bad or the doctor is bad? 4)If a lawyer looses the case due to ignorance, is the law bad or the lawyer is bad? Friends! study 'hinduism'and 'brahminism'as a part of 'hinduism' study the situations and environments what prevailed under muslim and british rules, also study what wasthe activities of men of positions during those periods , specially those during british periods to gain favours, and how the well functioning system was choked to suffocations by the cunning and selfintersted british, all doubts will go! Till then, all such debated are based on half or little knowledge!
RE:Blaming Brahminism and in turn 'hinduism'
by rumba cardi on Sep 23, 2007 03:15 PM Permalink
got an accident a year before & got foot enjuiry & was operated by upper class doctor 7 still not able to walk as a negligence on a doctors part as he does not perform his operation well , & bill was in thousands ,so what is bad if resevation is being nade compulsory as upper caste doctorrs is also doing negligence on his part,now i believe that reservation is not a bad idea
RE:Blaming Brahminism and in turn 'hinduism'
by ASHOK on May 08, 2007 02:59 AM Permalink
RY You have raised very valid questions, they are for those who are willing to study. What about those who want a place in every pie, without doing any serious study.
Such a study will help remove reactionary tendency.
On my side I am proposing a practical side,i.e
1) Work hard in present and build a future. NO ONE CAN CHNGE PAST.
Recently I spent 2 months in West Indies. Trinidad has 1.4 Million population,They have people of India and Africa. Indians were brought in Shacles. They were slaves and worked in Sugar cane farms. Right now Indian community is very strong, rich, perhaps every one in family has car. So are Africans Trinadians. None of them are complaining about past or hunting for English people. Rather British Gas and British petroleum are to main oil producing companies. Economy is booming. All Indians are well educated.
It seems in India , people wants protection.
Where as It is known fact that protectionism is a recipe for disaster, and anything protected ( human or Bussines) can never flourish.
RE:Blaming Brahminism and in turn 'hinduism'
by Sadhan Pande on May 08, 2007 05:15 AM Permalink
Indian hindus (I mean true hindus, not the fake ones)live for a reason different from others! This life they take as a 'blessing ' of GOD! It is meant for 'aradhana' though livelihood is a need too! Shastras of SASANATAN DHARMA have advised how to lead a humble life with full attention towards others'(even animals or trees or anything)goof! No quarrels! no jealousy! no fighting! But when one acts as enemy , trying to destroy the peace or the wealth for sustaining life, or his men and wife, the INTRUDER mey be treated accorfingly(even by killing) The king is appointed personality for foing wrong things straight! Alas!the state of India ignores HINDUS FIRST! WHY? IS THAT SECULARISM? The priblem is not of reservation as it is the ANTI HINDU ATTITUDES OF THE CONGRESS, COMMUNIST, RJD, SP , BSP AND ALL! THEY DONT KNOW THEYBARE IMMORAL LOT!OR KNOWING IT THEY ARE LIKE THAT! LET THE REAL HINDUS UNITE AND SEE THE EFFECTS! Without dharma life is just as an animal lives! I appreciate your vision about forgetting the past, BUT IF THE FUTURE IS MADE DHARMIC WAY!
RE:Ask your parents...
by rumba cardi on Sep 23, 2007 03:16 PM Permalink
got an accident a year before & got foot enjuiry & was operated by upper class doctor 7 still not able to walk as a negligence on a doctors part as he does not perform his operation well , & bill was in thousands ,so what is bad if resevation is being nade compulsory as upper caste doctorrs is also doing negligence on his part,now i believe that reservation is not a bad idea
RE:Ask your parents...
by ASHOK on May 04, 2007 06:35 AM Permalink
Dear m Do not sound like a broken record. Repeating same phrase. Come out of the loop. We can do nothing about past. No one can go back in time and set the things right.
I wish I could travel to past with you and ask the question which are asking NOW.
RE:Ask your parents...
by arun singh on Sep 23, 2007 01:25 PM Permalink
...and you seem to be out of touch of present also. The fact is that caste saga continues till this day. I has only changed its clothes but the real thing is intact, very much.
RE:Ask your parents...
by maayka on May 04, 2007 09:09 PM Permalink
history repeats sir.. be dalits for someday... Its just not a physical thing.. its an emotinal thing to undergo.... will u?? u cant right?? then shut the f*** up and support reservation...
RE:Ask your parents...
by ASHOK on May 05, 2007 06:49 AM Permalink
That means you have a vindictive attitute. You want all to go through, what you have gone through. I am repeated saying support a future which has plenty of seats take as much as you want.
Either tell me what is wrong in that or if right than support it.
If I am suffering, I do not wish whole world should suffer and feel the same pain as I am feeling.
I felt a total waste of Time and moneywhen a whole bacth of incompetent SC/ST was send to be trained by me. I did my best and than Left ONGC. Gave my 1 job also to you guys. There after I have never worked with any Indian Company. But That does not mean I stopped supporting Dalits. I still do that.
But I also notice that I have moved on with Best Companies in the world and all those guys whom I trained are nowhere around.
RE:RE:Ask your parents...
by Joseph Ike on Sep 21, 2007 03:04 PM Permalink
I'm sorry, but doesn't that mean that there was something wrong with the training you gave them?? Since you seem to be doing so well and they don't? Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will eat a lifetime.
RE:Ask your parents...
by Ashish Ranjan on Sep 23, 2007 11:26 AM Permalink
you can pull and save a drowning man who wishes to be saved. But being in deep water if he throws your hand, push u off and wants to drown making no effort himself, then he will drown. Some basic interest and effort is required by the person to be taught themselve, otherwise no great teacher, even joseph, can teach who does not want to take the lesson. Think on practical grounds.
tell me one thing u want to change. i cant understand? u want privatisation. have u read about the corporate scandals in the united states. many ceos are in jail. private sector cant see beyond money. govt is inefficient. that doesnt mean,we close down the govt. we have to work towards ensuring efficiency. that doesnt have anything to do with reservation.that is a wholly different issue. that is one of the responsibilities of the govt,to ensure that every community is socially and educationally equal.
RE:ashok
by ASHOK on May 04, 2007 03:50 AM Permalink
Dear Dinesh At issue is 2 aspects of RESERVATION POLICY (HOW it is framed and how it is implemented) I am saying both are not OK as on now , nor it has worked in the past 60 years. Also I am saying RESERVATION Can work only if we have Plenty of jobs so that no one have a chance to feel the pinch of Scaracity. Govt of India, with its socialist goals, has failed to do that given 1947 to 1991. Things moved up when we gave allowed private sector to function and gave them a free hand.
You tell me what YOU Favour >>
A handfull of seats and Reservation, and allow scenario like 40% capitation fee to breed and belch out low performers ( all classes)
or
A lot of seats and Reservation ( let few seats go vacant, if not filled) >> But No sacrifice on Quality of Education as well as Performance. Even if my own son is non performer
RE:ashok
by ASHOK on May 04, 2007 03:20 PM Permalink
Privatization in Indian Industry is now here to stay. Govt Gone are days of 1969 when 14 banks were nationalised in one stroke. Private sector has generated so much wealth that Govt can not buy them, even if they tax us 100% . Govt is inefficient and MP's are Opportunists/Thief's / Blood sucking the masses. Every month a new scandal is reported. And you are talking about US CEO's!!!! We can always pick up best of other countries,
RE:ashok
by Sriram Vanamamalai on May 04, 2007 02:08 AM Permalink
How will you become educationally equal when you ask for reservations? I mean you need the easy way out but will be cribbing that we are not being treated equal thats why we need reservation. Is that not have a different word. Yes it is HYPOCRISY.
RE:Forget merit,
by Sriram Vanamamalai on May 04, 2007 02:23 AM Permalink
Yes I can see that from your mere existence. Your parents made a mistake and here you are born with a retarded mind.
