Hindus claim they are secular broad minded etc.Then why Hindus kill untouchables,demolish their houses,practice untouchability even in this 21st century?If equality is there nobody will convert.If all can live with dignity nobody will thing of any other religion.Why Brahmins monopolize Archanam in temples even now? Why Hindus do not give human rights to OBCs and Dalits? How Pak & B`desh was created?All of them were former Hindus.Because of untouchability and Manuvad they were disgusted and got converted. Savarna Fascism spread rumours create problem in society so that they can devide people especially between Muslims and OBCs and continue their clout and monopoly by clinking on to power.
RE:Savarna Fascism
by G S on Apr 11, 2007 08:19 PM Permalink
You are not a Hindu and you have no rights to comment on our religion as you do not understand it. Twisted understanding is bad.
RE:Savarna Fascism
by ratnakar on Apr 11, 2007 07:15 PM Permalink
Mr. Chitharanjan Rao, first you must know the human history. If you take MUSLIM he had SHIYA and SUNNIES, in CHRISTIAN there is CATHOLIC and PROTESTANTS, in BHUDHISM some SECTS nearly 9 popular branches there, if you take this even a child can says that in any religion there is PROBLEM in their RELIGION just like we had OBCs and DALITS in HIDUISM. In other religions they live together even they killed their own religion persons, example: protestants X catholics, shiyas X sunnies. only problem is that our political thinking in INDIA is worst than any other country in the world. USA president can sworn in by PRAYING JESUS with the BISHOPS at the venue where he sworn in( you can check the clippings in media) where as in INDIA you cant imagine a PRIME MINISTER praying the HINDU GOD at his sworn in. so we must know the facts and errors, then you can know the problem is at POLITICS in india. kindly open your eyes fully and avoid all these child writings in future, try to help the society to abolish CASTISM and UNTOUCHABILITY by starting from your side, and encourage 3 persons to do the same, and to follow the chain by them. in 2 years we can get the result. ALL THE BEST MY DEAR INDIAN.
RE:Savarna Fascism
by on Apr 11, 2007 06:57 PM Permalink
How did 100% Hindus in J&K become only 5%. You are wrong about archana conducted by only brahmins. There are thousands of temples where archana is conducted by non-brahmins. Why do Sunnies dont treat Shias, ahmedias and other sects eaqually? Why were shias and kurds butcered in Iraq by so called Sunny Tiger Saddam Hussain? Why did Pakistan and Bangladesh separate? What happened to Muslim brotherhood? Which manuvad is forcing Shias in Baharain to convert to Sunny Islam? It is Islamic Fascism that is creating nuisance to the world. The sooner it disappears, the better for the world peace.
RE:Savarna Fascism
by Mukesh Garg on Apr 11, 2007 06:25 PM Permalink
Mr Rao, I agree that there is caste-evil in our hindu society, and we are determined to remove it. But here is the truth, there is a huge difference between Hindu and Muslim thinking ... We Hindus never attack and ancroach some one else's land, we do not kill others and make their women and children our slaves, we do not enforce our relegion on others, we believe in non-violence and not killings, we do not allow anyone to keep more than one wives and try to provide status of equality to women.
RE:RE:Savarna Fascism
by ahamed naveeth on Apr 11, 2007 10:08 PM Permalink
no islam did not spread by sword, check the current statistics, islam is the fastest growing religion is USA, is it spreading by use of sword?
RE:Savarna Fascism
by Rahul Verma on Apr 11, 2007 07:18 PM Permalink
Dear Goel, you are for sure a kniccker wala! Again it shows how sickening your type of minds are. They cant even imagine that a much much better religious Hindu than themselves can be perfectly secular in thought. For such fascists it is really beyond comprehension
RE:Savarna Fascism
by chaitanya kumar on Apr 11, 2007 06:16 PM Permalink
Chitharanjan Rao, you divide Hindus by calling some as Hindu and rest as OBC, Dalit. These are the tricks employed by missionary people who convert through such misleading propaganda. Tell you are a christian man and i will rip apart your identity like anything. You guys are turning more fanatic these days through support from evangelical authorities of foreign origin and you hate everything about India.
RE:Savarna Fascism
by Kaushik Das on Apr 11, 2007 07:16 PM Permalink
Casteism has always been a problem and educated hindus accept it (unlike even the educated ones in other religions). However, untouchability was banned many decades ago and is not in vogue in educated circles, even in villages. . And hindus NEVER KILLED untouchables - if they could not be touched, how could they be killed yaar? . Conversions happened mostly due to force as there are still a majority of lower caste people in India who are hindus - more than the number of muslims in india. . Brahmins' monopoly in temples has ended thanks to the SC ruling and have you noted that brahmins in India and abroad DID NOT riot in protest against the ruling??? :-)) . Human rights for dalits - in some cases, this allegation is true but human rights to OBCs? You don't seem to be living in India. You must know that OBCs are some of the worst abusers of law and human rights - they are foremost, and not the brahmins and OFCs, in treating dalits badly. . Pak and Bang were created by the sword of islam and not because of manuwaad (which you haven't read, I'm sure). How come all your converted muslims have names of khan and syed and mirza and shiekh if they were ex-untouchables? . Brahmins never really held power - they are some of the most powerless in India while OBCs are the most powerful - you'd know this if you were in India. OBCs are also those who rioted with muslims the most - because, for instance, muslims have beef while yadavs kept the cattle - clash of interest, you see. . There is no savarna fascism that i have ever witnessed. Only communist media uses such jargon to describe the awareness that hindus are getting of late - as if it is a bad thing.
RE:Savarna Fascism
by Sundara Vardhan on Apr 11, 2007 07:51 PM Permalink
First we need to clear doubts and look at whole thing: 1. About casteism : There are four varnas in Sanathana Dharma(Hinduism). They are based NOT ON BIRTH but by vocation. As per our Vedas, ALL are born Shudras - means that all will do physical labour by default. Now as one grows and chooses a line of vocation, they change from being a Shudhra to Brahmin (teacher/priest), Kshatriya (warrior/defence), Vysya (business) or remain Shudhra (others - which is what most of us are). If you want to become a brahmin, then become one but you should adhere to that job's requirements like wise for defence etc. 2. Conversion to Islam: This was NOT done by ones own accord. This was done by extreme coercion centuries back by muslim invaders like it was done by Portugese to Hindus to convert them to Christianity. Those were the worst crimes ever. Frankly, there is no relgion in the world which is as flexible as Sanathana Dharma. 3. Untouchabiliy etc: These were new things invented by the so-called rulers of India - The muslim invaders and British- so that they can exploit the caste system by dividing the society. Which they succeeded. Couple of generations later, we believe that this is what the Vedas told us. All this is utter nonsense. We do not have upanishads have lots of stories of untouchability,but on the contrary, it has stories about how a Kshatriya became a brahmin(Vishwamitra), How a robber became a great rishi (Valmiki), How a son born of a fisher woman became the greatest poet ever(Ved Vyasa) and more. If these are not stories telling us how to live then what is. What we have today is a contrued and twisted view as has been fed to us by the British and Muslim rulers. 4. Formation of Pak and B'desh: This has nothing to do with religion, but religion card was played by the British to try and take control of oil wells in the Middle East. Yes this is what happened and you should read the book about the the Great Game in which it has been nicely chronicled how the British wanted to stop the then Russian Empire from having their hands in Middle-East and wanted to form a buffer zone. Hindus DID not want to divide the country, but the Muslims willingly did so. Sir, as per you, it seems that the muslims in Pak and B'desh are more happier that the muslims here. Nowhere in the world, including the US, do the muslims enjoy their rights as they do in Bharat. So with half-baked knowledge, Please Sir, do not accuse the religion.
Here are some true characteristics of being secular in india: 1> you dont care about rights of hindus. Best example hindu kashmiris who no one in india cares about.
2> you are always ready for minority appeasement. Well this does not even need examples, Congress and other so called secular parties compete with each other for this.
Minority can give any speech or release any CD they want and you should not have a problem. I have heard mullahs, muslim leaders from congress and SP openly talk about hate and killing but of course they will be allowed after all they are minority. Some muslim politicians have openly made anti national statements but no one can take any action. Muslim politicians in UP have given out fatwa offering reward for beheading. This person is a minister in Mulayam government. Looks like at those times this group called ANHAD prefers to sleep.
a clear picture of a muslim child who opned his eyes in morn culd not find his/her mother as she faced TALAQ in dreams--another facual position---many muslim children r not aware exactly of actual father/mother as TALAQ played part while child was in womb or just got birth-- another factual position--muslim lady and her different husbands due to TALAQ--they say it is islam---a cruel joke by islamic follwers--they say their religion is supreme--why--any justification?u have zero tolerance even among yr own communities NOT to talk of nonmuslims and PLS note every other religion has a parameter of tolerance whether hindu christian or anybody else--u muslims cannt enjoy festivals together--sunnis go to their masjid and shias go their masjid--even while performing lasrt rites on death--u cannot allow other mufti to perform--yr tolerance is superior only in one field and that is TALAQ and that respected Lady who tolerates repeatedly on this earth---every religion have many evils but they donot go to rooftop and cry THEIR RELIGION IS THE BEST AND SUPERIORMOST as none is supreme--only humanity is supreme which muslims lack as they convert he/she marrying muslim she/he--can anyone challenge my views?in hinduism the supreme is humanity nationhood brotherhood and love for peace in world---no place for Individual GOD even in any religious book--all GODS depend on each other--LALITKUMAR
RE:RE:islam is great because its followers damage it
by Chitharanjan Rao on Apr 11, 2007 05:23 PM Permalink
If it so why saffron politics spread hate mongering? why there are anti Muslim Riots in stes like Gujarath? In India savarna fascism is causing all trouble
RE:islam is great because its followers damage it
by Bhishma Bharadwaj on Apr 11, 2007 05:32 PM Permalink
My dear blind or rather half blind brother - the riots in Gujrat happened BECUASE 60 people including 40 women and children were BURNT ALIVE!!! in the train coach. Well, if the english media was to believe, the first report blamed the Hindus for 'provoking' the local muslims which led to them (Fanatic Hindus) being burnt alive (by secular muslims) - nice logic and justification. This kind of pseudo-secualr attitude that is causing the polarization of the society and not the 'Hindutva' - which BTW is a conglomeration of million ideas and beliefs.
RE:RE:RE:islam is great because its followers damage it
by Pure Hindustani on Apr 11, 2007 08:59 PM Permalink
Rao: can you imagine what would have happened If Hindus had burnt muslims in Pakistan like you muslims did in Godhra. Muslims in pakistan would have killed each and every Hindu there. You muslims are the most fanatic people in the world.
RE:islam is great because its followers damage it
by Kaushik Das on Apr 11, 2007 07:34 PM Permalink
Rao, why anti muslim riots? because when they killed our women and children for 10 centuries, we did not ask 'why anti-hindu'?. But there is a limit to everything. . The kind of bombings these guys have done pretending to take revenge of the gujarat riots is mind-boggling. You see, muslims in India are allowed to take revenge but hindus cannot take revenge of godhra burning of children.
RE:islam is great because its followers damage it
by rachita bholowalia on Apr 11, 2007 05:40 PM Permalink
u appear to be mentally damaged as u have not gone thro what has been submitted--simply crying gujrat gujrat--first muslims created many gujrats--secondly u just take yr parents children if any to gujrat and talk closely visit different places and wud find MSLIMS happier than any other place as they r not scared of rss bjp but scared of people like u who only use gurati muslims for yr views--i have enjoed rss jansangh and lived with muslims from morn till eve in nights and none had problem except having a fear of people like u-- cong communists and other secular parties--u just go to lko where violence erupted recently and u being blind would frame rss bjp--mind it i have already said in many articles that muslims r responsible for their own fate as they have playing in hands of secularists--rss bjp have every right to ask votes in name of hindus as secular parties have been asking for muslim votes for more than 60 yrs.mind it if rss bjp want any trouble then be sure we wud trace u first and then anyoneelse as we believe people like creat more trouble than muslims--if u want welfare of muslims--educate their children control their population ask them to wear national tag no violence among themselves and u must know that they r not scared of rss bjp at all--lalit kumar
RE:islam is great because its followers damage it
by Human Being on Apr 11, 2007 06:02 PM Permalink
Chitharanjan Rao,
Can you explain me why calculatta riots happened in 1946 and why Noakhali massacre happened in Oct 1946?
Thousands of hindus were killed in those riots, nobody mentions it. Always talk about Gujarat. Don't you know why gujrat riots happened. How old were you in 2002?
""We will circulate this CD all over this state, where communalism has dug its roots deep"" Hahahahaha!!! I think he has a tough job. He should start from AMU.
RE:Hmm...
by Kaushik Das on Apr 11, 2007 07:38 PM Permalink
Rao, you didn't get it. AMU is aligarh muslim university which is the garh of most troubles in UP. This again shows that you do not belong here.
RE:Hmm...
by Bhishma Bharadwaj on Apr 11, 2007 05:34 PM Permalink
Lets go even more north to Pakistan and Afganistan where your most secular friends live.
RE:Hmm...
by Mahesh Jagga on Apr 11, 2007 05:46 PM Permalink
is there calculation correct? I mean BJP only gets 20% votes so how can communalism dug its roots deep.
Rest 80% votes go to their favourite secularists - Mulayam, Maya, Gandhis (its no longer congress anyway) etc.
Hinduism never tries to uproot another religion. The most radical Hindu won't think of converting another just because he/she is not a Hindu. In stark contrast with the two major Abrahamic religions, Hinduism does not have the concept of forced or monetarily induced conversions. Having said that, Hinduism could be made much more rational by getting rid of the caste system. This is one renaissance that should have happened at least five centuries back.
BJP's CD is a portrayal of the ghastly truth that is being played out everyday. Everyday the Hindus are being pushed more and more towards becoming minorities in their home land and the government does not spare any effort towards keeping the Hindus divided. The result is that anti Hindu forces rule the roost and the mostly anti Hindu media can get away with its partisan act. If yo do not believe me, look no further than Pakistan and Bangladesh to understand what would happen if Hindus were to lose their majority in India. Pick up a copy of Lajja and start reading. Read up the history of Goa and the Americas to get a glimpse of the barbaric acts of the missionaries. The American president Jefferson accurately described the state of affairs when he said "The Christian God is cruel, vindictive, capricious and unjust". Religion is what we practice. I am a proud Hindu and believe in the chant "Sarbe Bhabantu Sukhinah", but the same can't be said of the missionaries. For them, it is convert thy neighbour and only then love him. I would like to add that I consider Jesus Christ to be a saviour of humanity just like Buddha was. But as I have said earlier, religion is what we practice and in that respect my Hinduism sans its casteism is much more modern than a missionary's Christianity.
Religions are meant to be empowering tools, not means to end ourselves, but unfortunately some of us are stuck with medieval mindsets. If the media is indeed so concerned about BJP's CD, it will have to start the cleansing with itself. Right now their act is more akin to a sewer trying to clean a polluted river.
RE:Bunch of anti Hindu bigots
by Soumodeep Biswas on Apr 11, 2007 05:03 PM Permalink
If Hinduism is so modern why is it trying to put down other religion. Islam has some bad points but doesn't mean we have to bad mouth them. THey are Indians too and communal harmony is must for the country to progress.
So instead of thinking about religions we should think about our country India and not any religion. Its because of people like you that we are not progressing. Stop thinking about religion. India is secular and any religion is Indian. By doing this you are showing how intolerant Hinduism is.
RE:Bunch of anti Hindu bigots
by Deepak Mohanty on Apr 11, 2007 05:21 PM Permalink
My friend, GDP growth and a billion head count does not a country make. Peaceful and harmonious coexistence leading to an equitable society where you love everybody else as your brother/sister does. Religions could help in all these noble goals and the optimist in me tells that every religion with some ideological cleansing could help do that. I am just pointing to sorry state of affairs and the hypocrites who have no real intention of discussing the fault lines that threaten our very existence as a nation and as a race. Rather they would bring out a CD that plays into the hands of their masters in Delhi.
And my Muslim/Christian friend, stop using a pseudonym in the future.
RE:[object MouseEvent]
by Deepak Mohanty on Apr 11, 2007 05:23 PM Permalink
Rediff does not stack a thread properly. My second comment in this thread was in response to Mr. (supposedly) Biswas's post.
RE:Bunch of anti Hindu bigots
by Kaushik Das on Apr 11, 2007 05:21 PM Permalink
biswas, If we had to put down other religions, couldn't we have started with the minuscule parsis? Yet, they are the most successful and prosperous community, and well-respected, too. Ever gave a thought why? . However, let's take an opposing point - WHAT DO YOU DO if someone is trying to put down YOUR religion because you apparently worship idols??? Is that a reason to kill YOUR people? No, right? There you are, you got your answer. . Communal harmony already exists in this country except in muslim majority areas. Do YOU, o champion of communal harmony, have the guts to walk through a strictly muslim majority alleyway? Now compare that with how easily you or anybody from any religion can walk through a deeply hindu alleyway. THAT is the answer, my ignorant friend. . Actually, it is thinking about the country itself that has led to thinking about religions. Our religion is automatically inclined to the country and its service. WE don't oppose the singing of Wande Maataram. . Yes, India is secular because WE hindus believe in secularism. But what do you do if this very concept of secularism / hinduism is attacked by people who are misusing the concept by turning it into islamism? . Actually, it is because of ignorant people like you, biswas, that we are not progressing. Our retrogade steps are not documentable because they hurt a particular community. . I have seen hindus growing up thinking that all religions are Indian and everyone is equal - however, reality has changed our minds. . Please go through faithfreedom.org to educate yourself. As far as reality in India is concerned, you'll need to keep your eyes and ears open. Why is it that a truth-telling CD is being called hateful by you while you close your eyes to the goings-on elsewhere???
RE:Bunch of anti Hindu bigots
by vipankumar dogra on Apr 11, 2007 06:56 PM Permalink
BEFORE partition even jinnah was also indian,and secular like u could not stop him to divide india.muslims migrating to pakistan were not came from moon but those who disliked india when living in india,so dont forget these truths also.if u say that they were discriminated by upper casts,then ask them are they more happy now than before?what is happening in afghanistan pak bangladesh? at present they are in worst condition than lower casts in india.why no peace in muslim countries when all of them practice equality.is it that anyone can kill anyone is the meaning of equality?why bangladeshi comming to india why they are poor?there are no upper casts who discriminate against them?ANY ANSWER?
RE:Bunch of anti Hindu bigots
by Pure Hindustani on Apr 11, 2007 09:07 PM Permalink
Biswasghat: You commies are curse on this country. You guys are 'NAMAK HARAM'. Why you guys don't go to china and leave us alone. CPI(M)= Chinese Puppets in India (mather-hod)
RE:Bunch of anti Hindu bigots
by Chitharanjan Rao on Apr 11, 2007 05:36 PM Permalink
Then why Hindus kill untouchables,demolish their houses,practice untouchability even in this 21st century?If equality is there nobody will convert.If all can live with dignity nobody will thing of any other religion.Why Brahmins monopolize Archanam in temples even now? Why Hindus do not give human rights to OBCs and Dalits? How Pak & B`desh was created?All of them were former Hindus.Because of untouchability and Manuvad they were disgusted and got converted.
RE:Bunch of anti Hindu bigots
by LAGIDU on Apr 11, 2007 08:33 PM Permalink
Dear C Rao, Brahmins are temple poojaris as long as devotees irrespective of caste want them to be. I hear that in TN the govt has started some poojari course and above 80% of trainees are dalits and backwards. if we visit Madurai and Rameswaram in about a year's time, we may be able to receive Prasad from the hands of dalit poojaris. that automatically solves the problem. Other states should follow suit.
RE:Bunch of anti Hindu bigots
by abhinav goel on Apr 11, 2007 05:51 PM Permalink
Dear Rao.....u r for sure a muslim with a rediff name of rao.The whole world knows the history of how islam spread. It was by the force of sword dangling over their neck. It was a choice betwen islam or death. Noone converted due to their own wish.
RE:RE:Bunch of anti Hindu bigots
by Mir Alam on Apr 11, 2007 06:19 PM Permalink
Hi,abhinav goel, If Islam spread by sword then 1) why Islam is the fastest growing religion in USA & Europe, 2) Who stops these sub-continent people current muslims numbering 50 Crores (India, Pakistan, Bdesh)to reconvert to yr religion. Come on u, we are all same by blood, color, race only diff. "We pray the Creator but u pray his Creations". Ponder over it.
RE:[object MouseEvent]
by Kaushik Das on Apr 11, 2007 07:46 PM Permalink
1. Why fastest growing is because in the poor world, the poor and discriminated, who don't need religion, are promised equality in islam - the males in the male dominated societies are also promised multiple wives and children. How many rich and able people convert to islam? 2. Why cannot they convert back to otehr religions? Because the punishment for doing that from islam is DEATH. Do read faithfreedom.org and apostatesofislam.com
RE:[object]
by LAGIDU on Apr 11, 2007 08:38 PM Permalink
Mubeen bhai, it is Advaita philosophy. U need to take million more births to understand it. It is good that for the present you follow the basic islam. There is time for you to grow. there is 55000 more years before Kaliyug will end.
RE:[object MouseEvent]
by Kaushik Das on Apr 11, 2007 07:52 PM Permalink
Mubeen, the creator, by your own definition, has to be supernatural and more, much more powerful than you can imagine. Ok, so, tell me, why have you restricted your creator to beyond His creation??? . If the creator is so powerful, it should be HIS choice, NOT YOURS, to be a part of (or even the whole of) His CREATION. . Now, tell me what is wrong with worshipping the creation along with the creator? . The creation is also the easier way of connecting with a creator we haven't seen. The creation is His manifestation. Why NOT worship it?
RE:RE:[object MouseEvent]
by Deepak Mohanty on Apr 11, 2007 09:44 PM Permalink
Profound comment. Good to have some people who can engage in an enlightened discussion.
RE:Bunch of anti Hindu bigots
by Omar Shariff on Apr 11, 2007 09:40 PM Permalink
mr abinev u answer question of chitranjan .why u guy practise untachablity & monopolise archanam & not give right to obc & dalit .u answer that qustion 1st.
RE:Bunch of anti Hindu bigots
by Kumar Bhargava on Apr 11, 2007 05:30 PM Permalink
Mr. Mohanty, any sane Hindu cannot diagree with you. I would also like to add, that to bring forth the unity among Hindus, eminent people among Hindus, religious Heads of Mutts like Shankaracharyas should propagate relentlessly against casteism and bring all of them together. Funds must be created from communities to help the downtrodden (if more need to be given to the low castes, please give all the help to them. I am a Brahmin and I assure you Brahmins will not feel offended, when other communities come up). In ten years, we can make Congress Party - 'history'.
Actually these so called secularists are getting all type of overt and covert support from anti India establishments ...but yes....i m not worried as I can see a wave of hindu uprising against their bloody nexus by educated hindu class...lets work for the unity of hindu religion and India as a hindu nation...RSS is working relentlessly for this cause...they hav various social groups who are working for downtrodden among ourselves...we dont need reservations...we need equality...
RE:RE:lets work for our hindu brothers
by Chitharanjan Rao on Apr 11, 2007 05:43 PM Permalink
Without reservations historical correction will not occur.Hinduism is itself a religion of reservations you know,sprituality and evrything good for Brahmins,kingdom for Kshathriyas,trade for vaisyas,menial work for sudras,and all others persecution for dalits!
RE:lets work for our hindu brothers
by abhinav goel on Apr 11, 2007 05:53 PM Permalink
What about the historical correction of 800 years of muslim rule rao? Should we bring down all the masjids in our country for that? Indiscriminate discrimination....like 69% reservation is not the solution. Solution lies in providing 100% literacy through free primary education.
RE:lets work for our hindu brothers
by Kaushik Das on Apr 11, 2007 08:00 PM Permalink
But how many hindus believe in that brahmins' monopoly? Not even the brahmins themselves. And the original caste system was NOT hereditary. Somewhere down the line, it became one (for whatever reasons) and that was then misused. But i don't see how reservations are going to get equality in. OBCs are already the most powerful. What if we say that brahmins should have reserved seats in parliament and UP assembly? Will the mulayams and mayawatis accept it? No, because they have worked (however!) for those seats. They won't give it away. . Also, giving someone alms (reservation) can only feed for a day. Education only can feed for a lifetime.
I am anxious why the Hindu N Ram has been left out. Is he out of steshan? no sickular kampeni is kamplete without him. Deepa mehta and girish karnad are also notabel absentees. vaatever has happened to thees peepal?
RE:missing in action
by Kaushik Das on Apr 11, 2007 08:03 PM Permalink
'Aarya' means noble. Aarya wartta is noble land. Any problems? sorry, pakistan cannot qualify to be noble land.
