Today if any SC/ST/OB is a police officer, engineer, doctor, lawyer etc. it is because inspite of their terrible performance in studies they got to these positions due to reservations and not because they were intelligent or worked hard for it. On the other hand if a Brahmin is a police office, engineer, doctors, lawyer etc. its because inspite of reservations they have come up due their hardwork, perseverance, intelligence. SC/STs/OBCs should be happy that the Brahmins are not feeling less priviledged to compete with the lazy, incompetent OBC morons. You OBCs will fail miserably when you represent India to the foreign countries. And that's because you have no reservations in the international arena.
RE:The fate of OBCs...
by m on Apr 02, 2007 03:06 PM Permalink
If you are so proud of your merit where do you stand if you benchmark with rest of the world?
RE:The fate of OBCs...
by myfaq on Apr 02, 2007 03:30 PM Permalink
If the foreign countries are looking at India today it is because of the 3% of the general category Indian Citizens who who made the country proud and they are the ones who pay taxes to fund your free education. If the OBCs had rather supported the 3% instead of investing time for personal benefits like the reservations, you can very well judge where we would have been today after 60 years of Independence...As for my benchmark I don't feel I have to justify to any incompetent OBC...
those who support creamy layer... one of my dad's friend(who is a SC) was telling a experience few days back...he has seen that many sc's who are rich are becoming more richer and are infact suppressing the poor SC people
they are the one who use to reservation and the actual poor Sc people dont get anything..the one benefiting from the reservation is the rich backward people..and these same rich backward people do nothing to uplift their own caste..they dont marry their child to a SC who is poor or a farmer..they are now suppressing their own SC people..so the rich SC has become the oldage brahmin now and poor SC remains poor and backward..
RE:about backward caste
by m on Apr 02, 2007 03:48 PM Permalink
Hinduism is the root of all evil in India. 1. It explicitly creates irrational hierarchy among Indians which is against Article 14. 2. Parents covertly train their children to coerce other children as per the above hierarchies. I deplore any other religion that does this.
People who are asking for reservations should feel shame.....
OBCs never never deprieved by anybody and they are not backward, infact they deprieved SCs a lot than forward casts.
Hei guys fight to remove reservations for you, other wise we will treat you as waste fellows... now we start see you as untouchables... all people who want reservations should be eliminated from society, why you can't die when you can't with stand in competition.
RE:Feel shame to ask for Reservations
by myfaq on Apr 02, 2007 02:41 PM Permalink
Ramesh, if someone starts feeding you free of cost, you will not work for it, do you? One becomes lazy over a period of time and you start assuming that feeding free of cost is their birthright...
RE:Feel shame to ask for Reservations
by myfaq on Apr 02, 2007 03:32 PM Permalink
I am not afraid, I am surprised to see that you feel as if you own the country and the upper caste...You are no one to offer anything to anyone...In hindi its call aukaad...I hope you understand what I mean...
RE:Feel shame to ask for Reservations
by myfaq on Apr 02, 2007 04:44 PM Permalink
Well, not really, but they had or will have their share of earning their own bread...We work for the properity of the country and not try to make lame excuses for not contributing to the country's growth...
I am from UP and I belong to the forward class and the things is, I plan to vote for BSP, all other parties are completely in support of large scale reservations in public and private institutions, as far as forward and backward are concerned, there is no forward and backward,everyone is equal, if history has been unjust to particular communities, it is for us the forward classes to educate those from so called backward classes and support them if and if reservation is removed, we should not hesitate to support SC/ST's/OBC's and minorities if the reservation policy is nullified, actually it had to end in the year 2000 as per constitution and that did not happen,thanks to Vajpayee who all of a sudden increased the time-frame when it was about to end. Every person from the forward community if he practices the caste system should end doing so and if reservations are removed it is upto us then to educate poor people and pool up our excess resources to make them stand equal to us so that some of the horrible mistakes of the past can go to the graveyard. But if reservation remains to hell with it!!!! Reservation is like poison dividing people on the basis of communities and at least 2-3% of the GDP should be invested in educating all individuals and private parties including affluent people should come out to support the poor. as far as what someone out here said 85% are OBC's and 20% Forward Classes and we will lose out because OBC's will see to it that we do, weel 85% and 20% makes 105% and there is no such thing as 105% , see this is what reservation gives you , no proper education and no equality, in fact you still have to pay the high fees once you enter a university through reservation. As far as one does not notice your arithmetics, the fact is why did Congress lose in Uttarakhand and Punjab? well because yours as well as the Congress's calculations were wrong based on 1931 census, VP singh from being a Prime Minister reached the zero level and has to start again fresh from western UP, that's what happen to those who bring about reservations. Perhaps if this continues we will all see new parties and all the current political parties will become defunct because of their policies. The fact is what the politicians are doing, they are trying to bring about a divide and rule policy similar to the ones you guys mention, the ones present in history, every forward class student in universities will now not support his fellow mates when he will know which community they belong to,the nation is being divided on basis of communities and creating suspicion amongst them when it is time to bring equality and end poverty in this country. Reservation in fact brings poverty, you will still have to pay the high fees once you get in through reservation into a prestigious university. Equality is the main thing not reservation,that's inequality.I have nothing against any community, I know no community asks for it, the politicians hurl it down their throats and if someone is getting reservation then it's the best thing, how can you refuse? if forward classes would have been given reservation they wouldn't have refused either, the politicians gave a gift and you got to accept, but reservation policy this way is flawed and creates hostilities amongst friends and countrymen. All people from affluent classes support those who are economically and socially backward and by doing so uplift them but if you support them, see to it that you give them equality and tell them not to go through reservation and see to it that they are meritorious enough that they don't need it and get through without it-create a connection rather than foster suspicion, let's not play in the hands of politicians.If more and more people come out and start helping others the politicians will turn out to be mere fools.
RE:Reservation Policy is flawed and fosters inequality
by Akash on Apr 02, 2007 02:56 PM Permalink
The fact is BSP is trying to woo the upper castes right now and Mayawati can talk of reservations once or twice but not be so open about it, that will hurt her election results. She has also tried to bring people from the forward classes into the party to stand on behalf of BSP, she will never want her newly found vote bank to abandon her,if they do,she will land up in a mess. Right now it's best to vote for her but if she again starts her rhetoric against particular communities, we will try to find other options. Right now I believe she is the best bet, as far as manifestos are concerned, all manifestos contain a section about reservation,most of them are either followed or not followed, practicality lies in the fact that vote-bank politics is aimed at communities and then they try to increase their vote bank to reach the national level, if they do abandon a community we will have to look for other options. but forward classes should join one party as it's members and vote for that party irrespective of which state they are in, the thing is even Srinagar University students opposed reservation as well as people from Kohima, reservation is intended to cut the nation along a horizontal line not vertical one that happened in 1947- i.e. you are either a hindu,muslim,christian,sikh,buddhist SC/ST/OBC and get reservation on that basis or else if you are an upper caste or middle caste hindu or a person from another religion who before conversion belonged to upper caste and middle caste community, you are ignored, so it's for us to see which party we should choose not only vote for it but join it in large numbers to turn the picture and all General community students irrespective of which religion you belong to-UNITE! Once reservation policy is nullified , support and help those from the backward classes-fund for their education,support them economically with any excess resources that you have to bring real merit and treat them with equality because by the end of it no one is forward or backward, society turns things that way and ills of the past cannot be ended by dividing people but by uniting people, end this horizontal partition which is taking place right now, it's worse than vertical divide and rule policy
RE:[object MouseEvent]
by Akash on Apr 02, 2007 03:05 PM Permalink
And all OBC's and Brahmins on this message board should remember that Chadragupta Maurya belong to the OBC class and Kautilya famously know as Chanakya belonged to the Brahmin community, and we name them at equal breath, it was for Chanakya Arth Shastra that Chandragupta became emperor of India, it was for Chadragupta that Chanakya's words are still remembered. It is on this basis that all of us have to unite not any other way. Akbar and Birbal, one a muslim other a brahmin, you must have heard of that- there are several such examples. Kabir,Tulsidas were great sages . Arjun singh is a politician , only a politician who will be forgotten soon like V.P. Singh and this wouldn't even go down in history.
RE:Reservation Policy is flawed and fosters inequality
by Akash on Apr 02, 2007 02:56 PM Permalink
The fact is BSP is trying to woo the upper castes right now and Mayawati can talk of reservations once or twice but not be so open about it, that will hurt her election results. She has also tried to bring people from the forward classes into the party to stand on behalf of BSP, she will never want her newly found vote bank to abandon her,if they do,she will land up in a mess. Right now it's best to vote for her but if she again starts her rhetoric against particular communities, we will try to find other options. Right now I believe she is the best bet, as far as manifestos are concerned, all manifestos contain a section about reservation,most of them are either followed or not followed, practicality lies in the fact that vote-bank politics is aimed at communities and then they try to increase their vote bank to reach the national level, if they do abandon a community we will have to look for other options. but forward classes should join one party as it's members and vote for that party irrespective of which state they are in, the thing is even Srinagar University students opposed reservation as well as people from Kohima, reservation is intended to cut the nation along a horizontal line not vertical one that happened in 1947- i.e. you are either a hindu,muslim,christian,sikh,buddhist SC/ST/OBC and get reservation on that basis or else if you are an upper caste or middle caste hindu or a person from another religion who before conversion belonged to upper caste and middle caste community, you are ignored, so it's for us to see which party we should choose not only vote for it but join it in large numbers to turn the picture and all General community students irrespective of which religion you belong to-UNITE! Once reservation policy is nullified , support and help those from the backward classes-fund for their education,support them economically with any excess resources that you have to bring real merit and treat them with equality because by the end of it no one is forward or backward, society turns things that way and ills of the past cannot be ended by dividing people but by uniting people, end this horizontal partition which is taking place right now, it's worse than vertical divide and rule policy
RE:FYIP
by Biswajit Ghoshal on Apr 02, 2007 02:40 PM Permalink
Yes - that's why it is undemocratic to give quota to any section of the society.
The main purpose of quota is to bring social justice to the poor. so to bring them up, free education and free higher education can be provided. If we don't do that, then even if we have quota, the poor people won't be able to reach the stage from where they can reap the benefits of quota. Instead, the creamy section of SC/ST/OBCs would continue the avail those benefits and fatten-up. With Quota-system in place, the main purpose of quota would be defeted.
RE:FYIP
by m on Apr 02, 2007 02:50 PM Permalink
Any rational person will compete with himself and not with others. A truly meritorious student will understand this.
RE:RE:FYIP
by Biswajit Ghoshal on Apr 02, 2007 03:45 PM Permalink
1. Before using logic which you might have mugged up elsewhere, check it's applicability. Cometition with self is for self-improvement. Whereas it is competition with others, when one is applying to some job or institute. Otherwise there would not have been anything called competitive examinations !!
2. If you really believe competition with self is for rational meritorious students, then do you say that is for only the general category students - and not for SC/ST/OBCs, because they are irrational and meritless - which is why they need reservation???
The Govt should see to it that the OBCs should get special treatment by way of reservation. I belong to a so called upper caste and I am very much aware how the OBCs are treated by the so called upper caste people. However, Govt may reconsider extending this benefit to the creamy layer in the OBCs.
RE:Re: Reservation for OBCs
by girish s on Apr 02, 2007 02:42 PM Permalink
If you are from a so called upper caste, and feel that OBCs or in fact ANYBODY is mistreated, why dont you educate them? On the other hand, by giving reservations, the divide among people will only increase.
RE:Re: Reservation for OBCs
by Roy on Apr 02, 2007 02:31 PM Permalink
You are giving a wrong signal to the whole issue. When any of the politicians are not going to listen to any of the suggestions then how can they reconsider the benefits. All political parties are playing vote bank politics.
RE:Re: Reservation for OBCs
by Biswajit Ghoshal on Apr 02, 2007 02:49 PM Permalink
Girija - when you'll grow up, you would come to know that quota won't help anyone. The main problem that the govt is trying to address is backwardness and poverty. For that the backward people need access to education, food, finance. How would the IIM-quota benefit an illeterate/standard-4 passed OBC? That quota would be taken up by a well-off but dull boy from the OBC (i.e. from creamy layer). The illeterate person will remain illeterate. Quota would only bring some undue privilege to the creamy layer people from SC/ST/OBC - it will defeat the basic purpose altogether.
And the bad treatment given to the OBC by upper-caste you are talking about is a local issue. The upper caste person needs correction - which can be given to him by the lega/police system. The laws of the country or the institutes are equal for all already - only their proper utilization/implementation is needed. Quota won't solve personal issues.
RE:Re: Reservation for OBCs
by puneet arora on Apr 02, 2007 02:37 PM Permalink
Girija, i don't think that you belong to General category...you are lieing... Reservation is not the solution. I am IIT Delhi allumni, and i know, how the quota guys were struggling in coping up with the pressure of the studies... It would be better if we attack the root causes, rather than playing vote politics.
I think now the situation has come when we should have two classes and abolish all other classes and castes, ie the Poor and The Rich. Reservation should be for the poor and no reservation for the rich. All facilities including freeships in studies/boarding/lodging etc everything should be only for the poor of whatever caste/religion it may be, whereas no reservation etc for any one whose falls in the rich category. This category of Rich and Poor may be defined judiciously. To understand my message one has to think if a poor man is not able to reach the qualifying level how he can avail the reservation fruits of the elite institutions. Well if at all reservations are to be gien they should be given at the school level and then may be reservation in the elite may not be required at all or it may be required to a small percentage. I think no one is wary of the the people belonging to the existing reserved category but it is the only Politicians who are out to ruin the country and it is high time they stop it or else if the public which had thrown the British out of India in no time, would not spare the Politicians. One can not stop the public be-ware POLITICIANS. The times are going to be very tough for everyone. In the end I would sum up by saying that all anti reservationist should atleast vote judiciously so that once the higher polling is observed, it would give a message to the Politicians of public awareness. Presently they are talking the educated class for granted.
RE:Reservation
by Gaurav Gaddhyan on Apr 02, 2007 02:19 PM Permalink
totally agree, just one point... rather than reservation, they should be provided with adequate resources to be able to compete with rich kids
RE:Reservation
by Roy on Apr 02, 2007 02:21 PM Permalink
Mr.Deepak, You are cautioning against politicians, but which politicians ? Congress, BJP, BSP, SP, CPM, and all other NDA or UPA partners are all in the same league. So whom to avoid and whom to adhere ? There is no better choice for the people in India.
