RE:RE:Rediff pl.....
by Anil Kumar on Apr 02, 2007 12:18 PM Permalink
There is only One K.R.Narayan,B.R.Ambedkar, KG Balakrishnan, there is no thousand of K.R.Nnarayan and B.R.Ambedkar in India
RE:Rediff pl.....
by on Apr 02, 2007 12:16 PM Permalink
president enjoys several benefits..it is one of them he used for his daughter..so since K.R. Narayanan made a mistake to awail reservation, it dosent mean even you should..if tomorrow K.R.narayanan start begging on the road, will you do the same??
reservation can be given only to the poor and needy (whatever be the caste etc..)..There should be no reservation for the rich, even if he is from OBC or SC/ST..those who get selected based on merit and those who are economically poor should only get admissions...
can u explain the need for reservation for creamy layer??its just vote bank politics Mr.Ben..you people support these leaders only because u r benefiting out of it..because u knw tht u may nt get admissions based on ur merit..cos u dnt have the capacity or urge..i have heard so many of reserved category students saying that they are aiming only for 55-60% in MH CET (when asked by teachers about their target score)..whereas any studious student or unreserved stud would aim around 98% to get selected in a good college..thats the truth..what can u expect such students who aim less to become in future..they are just hogging over the seats and because of such students the deserving students are left behind..and it is sad that reservation is misused..only those people from rich OBC and SC/ST families awail reservation... where is the poor???
what Supreme court has done and asked is very right..where is the poor and who are OBC's..where is the data to show OBC's or SCST..where will meritorious students go??is there any justification for making reservation for creamy layer??
if at all there is reservation...it should only be for poor economically backward people irrespective of their caste or creed...
I am Neither Brahmin Nor OBC. I am a Maratha, Open category. Grandparents were petty farmers. I have written several posts on this issue. I do not wish to repeat. The key points that I made are that social justice should be done to everyone. All backward classes (social and economic) should be given free schooling and financial assitance for higher education.
But now I make a new point and that is the definition of OBC. Let us say that OBCs get admission in IITs and IIMs. However who exactly will enter these insitutions ? Let us find out.
The OBCs cover a wide range from caste standpoint and even wider range of economic standpoint. eg Both the Sonar (Jeweller) and Lohar (Iron Smith) are considered OBCs. The Sonar are close to Brahmins in rituals and economic status. The Lohars are on the other end of the spectrum. The Sonars have economic clout and can even beat Brahmins in competitive exams. Guess who is getting in to IIT/IIM ? Sonar or Lohar even if the reservation is 90% ?
The Lohar is asking for reservation. Does he know who he will compete with ? Had the Sonar been removed from the OBC list, the Lohar had a good chance of getting in even if the reservation is 20% !
However if the reservation was based on economic criteria, the Lohar would have got admission due to his poor economic status. Plus no one would complain since kids in higher economic cetegory will pay donations to get admission! Once the Lohar's community improves, it will automatically get removed from the quota list making way for other deprived communities.
So dear OBC brothers and sisters, instead of just asking for a % in reservation, try to increase the chances of deserving OBC candidates.
There are 4 categories of OBCs: 1. OBCs genuinely needing support from society. We need to provide for their schooling, guidance and financial assitance for higher education. 2. OBCs who got admission on merit and are proud of it. They need to encourage others in doing the same. They should be future leaders! 3. OBCs who mis-used the quota system inspite of their good economic status and feel guilty. Dont repeat the mistake. Dont let your children mis-use it. Give other OBCs a chance. 4. OBCs who just want to get it free without any guilt. They cannot survive in a competitive environment. They will work in Government jobs with dusty files and waste their lives in government job culture. What do they know about MNCs, Programming, Project Management, International experience. They are like frogs in the Pond.
Only OBCs can solve their own problem. Others tring convincing them only causes more hatred.
RE:OBC definition
by Ujjal Choudhury on Apr 02, 2007 12:15 PM Permalink
This is a very rational and superbly articulated documents. The question is who will listen to the voice of reason? Today ALL political parties are speaking in one voice the CPM who joined Congress to prevent BJP coming to power has joined ranks with BJP on the issue. The only way this can be resisted is by forming a political party consisting of intellectual and technocrats. I believe such a party has already been formed by x-IIT people but the details have not been publicised. We all need to support the cause of this party. The exisiting politicians are prostituting their position. I am confident that they are being paid by Pakistan to rake up this issue so that India becomes a house divide.
RE:OBC definition
by Ujjal Choudhury on Apr 02, 2007 12:20 PM Permalink
The most important thing about the 4th category is that not only will they waste their own lives they will cause the honest tax paying citizen untold miseries by refusing to do an honest day's work/
As we are more than convinced that politicians are out to ruin the country in their greed to remain in power with populist measures,only last hopes remains in the judiciary.The subject passed in parliament need not be implemented as this is not a question of majority or minority opinion.How many real learned and unblemished personalities are there in the current parliament ? There are criminals,murder charged,other accused too in the parliament too.Are they going to decide the future of the country and we are to respect them ? If this is the democracy,hell with such democracy.Story of SCs and STs are different but OBCs are never backward nor discriminated.They should not be given this advantage.People will continue to hate VP and Arjun Singh for their plans to remain in dreams to become Prime Minister.One is living on medications and the other will follow suit.Still they continue to slow poison the country ! The acts of both VPSingh and Arjun Singh are more dangerous than Pakistan Trained terrorists. You ask learned(not accused and tainted ones )Parliamentarians in private they will disagree with the reservation but due to compulsion of vote bank politics,they are compelled to voice in favour.In Such situations,only Judiciary and no one can save the nation.Or else let there be Military rule in the country. Dr.Sriprakash Mohanty,Bhubaneswar
No Politicians wants quota for Women in Parliament or Assembley but they want quota for OBCs in Education & Jobs. Because it does not affect MPs & MLAs and their Children protected from all crimes thru unwritten constitution, specially designed for only Politicians. The aim of the Country is to uplift the poor & backward. Do they know or have the definition for poor & backward. WHY IT DOES NOT APPLY TO ALL OTHER CASTES? If these reservations will improve BCs,STs,SCs, then the Children of all those who enjoyed REservations must not be eligible for any reservation. If they dont develop in 30 yrs, then there is no need for any Reservations at a. Further the Reservation must be applicable only in ordinary Courses & not Engineering, Medicine etc, and in jobs it should be only at the entry level. Does our constitution say that BCs,STs,SCs will develop only if they become IAS,IPS,IRS etc? If so why reservations in other jobs and certainly not in Engineering & Medicine. Why dont they have Reservations in Armed Forces? Why dont the so called crusaders bring spouces for their children from under developed families (within their community) Why not insist that all our Ministers, MPs, MLAs go only to Doctors who obtained degrees & jobs thru Reservation. PM & President should get treated by Doctor who got minimum marks, Ministers thru Doctors who scored just more than minimum and so on? That will be the greatest show of development. WHY INDIANS PREFER TO LIVE LIKE 3RD GRADE CITIZENS IN FOREIGN COUNTRIES IS BECAUSE THEY ARE TREATED LIKE 4TH GRADE CITIZENS IN INDIA ITSELF WHERE THE 2ND GRADE CITIZEN IS WORST THAN 4TH GRADE CITIZEN IN US, UK, GERMANY ETC. India should open their eyes and appoint someone from unreserved class to solve the problem than going to permanently reserved fools.
I want reservation and i dont care what happens, if you people shout for anti-reservations or people self-immolate or whatever happens to this country or whatever. I will only vote for those who provide reservation for people like me.
RE:RE:RE:I want reservation!
by on Apr 02, 2007 12:14 PM Permalink
president enjoys several benefits..it is one of them he used for his daughter..so since K.R. Narayanan made a mistake to awail reservation, it dosent mean even you should..if tomorrow K.R.narayanan start begging on the road, will you do the same??
reservation can be given only to the poor and needy (whatever be the caste etc..)..There should be no reservation for the rich, even if he is from OBC or SC/ST..those who get selected based on merit and those who are economically poor should only get admissions...
can u explain the need for reservation for creamy layer??its just vote bank politics Mr.Ben..you people support these leaders only because u r benefiting out of it..because u knw tht u may nt get admissions based on ur merit..cos u dnt have the capacity or urge..i have heard so many of reserved category students saying that they are aiming only for 55-60% in MH CET (when asked by teachers about their target score)..whereas any studious student or unreserved stud would aim around 98% to get selected in a good college..thats the truth..what can u expect such students who aim less to become in future..they are just hogging over the seats and because of such students the deserving students are left behind..and it is sad that reservation is misused..only those people from rich OBC and SC/ST families awail reservation... where is the poor???
what Supreme court has done and asked is very right..where is the poor and who are OBC's..where is the data to show OBC's or SCST..where will meritorious students go??is there any justification for making reservation for creamy layer??
if at all there is reservation...it should only be for poor economically backward people irrespective of their caste or creed...
Let HR check with secular buddies like DMK & comic commies before announcibng when they want to move SC again or else they are many politicians with an itching senasation to take up this issue as champions of down trodden. I wish you, HR all the best for a total failure in your move... Jai Hind
The SC seems to be making fun of the whole issue. If the quota is meant for the upliftment of the OBCs, it should be made applicable and available to them at the earliest. Why should it stay the order and postpone to the next year? In my openion, on one hand the politicians make the full advantage of the whole issue and on the other hand the SC shows the Brahmanical or Rich infulence. Both should work for the better ment of the country and not to show their power. It is not the time for power fight but to support the needy! So let the quota be applicable from this year!
RE:RE:OBC quota
by mm gupta on Apr 02, 2007 11:52 AM Permalink
Dear Peter Ladis!Please know this! India, after independence, is governed by a CONSTITUTION,made effective from JAN 1950.The articles 14 to 16 ensure EQUALITY AND ABSENCE OF DISCRIMINATION, to all citizen,irrerspective of religion/caste/race/place of birth, excepting under 16(4)reservation was permitted in favour of socially backward and educationally backward classes, 16(4) has to be read with Art 335 which stipulates "maintenance of efficiency of administration".THIS RELAXATION FROM ARTICLE16(4) WAS GRANTED FOR 40 YEARS FROM THE DATE OF EFFECT OF COSTITUTION MEANING UPTO JANUARY 1990. The costitution makers gave ample opportunity for the Goverments in power since 1950(the first elected Government was seen in 1952 when the first election was held and CONGRESS CAME TO POWER EVERYWHEREIn forty years, Congress was in centre upto 1977, thats 25 years .IT IS MORE THAN ONE GENERATION FOR UPLIFTMENT OF THE BACKWARDS!EFFORT AND MONEY WISE 25 YEARS OF EFFORTS CAN TRANSFORM THE PICTURE! I t did not happen that way and the reservation process went on ! 1977 March to 1980 Jan, there was JANATA GOVT AND SOME TURMOIL BUT NONE OPPOSED THE RESERVATION SYSTEM! FROM THERE TO JAN 1990 CONGRESS HELD THE POWER ! NOW TIME OIF FORTY YEARS ARE UP ! VIOLATION OF CONSTITUTION BEGINS!RESERVATION GOES ON! THOSE HAVING BENEFITS STILL CONTINUE TO HAVE BENEFITS AS GOVT DIDNOT HAVE DATA RECORD MAINTAINED! ST/ ST WENT ON TO RECEIVE BENEFITS AS BACKWARDS! SONS/DAUGHTERS OF WELL PLACED/EDUCATED ALSO HAD THAT PRIVILEDGE -NO CHECK! While SCs / STs were considered to be backwards socially, and benefitte limilessly, the consideration for EDUCATIONALLY backwards were in darkness! There were schemes but where did the money go? FORTY YEARS PASSED AND TODAY AFTER 55 YEARS IF SOMEONE SAYS there are social/educational backwards and link many many other classes as socially backward and so on IS IT NOT A COOKING? COOKING, FAILURE TO GOVERN HAS LED THIS QUESTION TODAY THAT WHETHER QOUTA SHOULD BE RETAINED. A PRUDENT ANSWER IS "NO" because, it is not a soluton! First the correct survey , Identify peoplew who are still socially/educationally backward, provide HELPS DELINKED WITH RESERVATION ! Do anythingexcept reservation! OTHERWISE THE CONSTITUTION WILL BE VIOLATED! DISCRIMINATion , non equality to others will take over! Its a NATIONAL MATTER OF PRIORITY!
RE:RE:OBC quota
by on Apr 02, 2007 12:14 PM Permalink
president enjoys several benefits..it is one of them he used for his daughter..so since K.R. Narayanan made a mistake to awail reservation, it dosent mean even you should..if tomorrow K.R.narayanan start begging on the road, will you do the same??
reservation can be given only to the poor and needy (whatever be the caste etc..)..There should be no reservation for the rich, even if he is from OBC or SC/ST..those who get selected based on merit and those who are economically poor should only get admissions...
can u explain the need for reservation for creamy layer??its just vote bank politics Mr.Ben..you people support these leaders only because u r benefiting out of it..because u knw tht u may nt get admissions based on ur merit..cos u dnt have the capacity or urge..i have heard so many of reserved category students saying that they are aiming only for 55-60% in MH CET (when asked by teachers about their target score)..whereas any studious student or unreserved stud would aim around 98% to get selected in a good college..thats the truth..what can u expect such students who aim less to become in future..they are just hogging over the seats and because of such students the deserving students are left behind..and it is sad that reservation is misused..only those people from rich OBC and SC/ST families awail reservation... where is the poor???
what Supreme court has done and asked is very right..where is the poor and who are OBC's..where is the data to show OBC's or SCST..where will meritorious students go??is there any justification for making reservation for creamy layer??
if at all there is reservation...it should only be for poor economically backward people irrespective of their caste or creed...
RE:RE:OBC quota
by Peter Ladis on Apr 02, 2007 11:16 AM Permalink
Please check your conscience if the order is against the Morality or not! The oder which will be right for next year, cannot be right this year. Why? The right that one can get in future, cannot be the right at present! why? So this order of the SC looks as if it is a biased decision (though binds all other courts)! It is against the equity principle, natural justice, and good conscience.
RE:RE:RE:OBC quota
by Stranger on Apr 02, 2007 11:29 AM Permalink
Reservation is curse on merit.. I'll never go to any SC/ST doctor for medical check up.. and will never built home from a reserved category engineer..
People with the mentality for reservations on the basis of caste/tribe sucks and are parasitic creepers in indian society!
RE:OBC quota
by m on Apr 02, 2007 01:54 PM Permalink
Take up our generous offer and brace yourself. http://www.blogpoll.com/poll/view_Poll.php?type=java&poll_id=108166
RE:RE:RE:OBC quota
by TRUTHBABU on Apr 02, 2007 11:23 AM Permalink
Hai, Peter, How can you expect there will be an order for next year. Unless correct data furnished SC wont pass any order. 1931 data is a funny evidence. No reservation ever will be the order of SC.
It started off with Mandal and is the final evolution of caste-based politics. If you think about it, there is nothing anybody can do to staunch or regulate this "flaw"; reservation, however much the Supreme Court delays its implementation, is here to stay. Reservation in education is only the beginning; in its final form, reservation will be all-inclusive: private and public sector jobs (at all levels), even private school seats, perhaps even land allotment as one gentleman has indicated. What alternative does this provide the beseiged Forward Caste? Nothing, no real alternative at all. In 1994, the reservation quota in Tamil Nadu was 69%, and I remember as an FC, having to be satisfied in getting into a second-choice college, while my neighbour, the proud owner of many mills, walked into the college of his choice. I obtained admission at IIM-A perhaps because it only reserved for SC/STs then; if it were today I would not have been too sure. After a few years of working, I decided to move abroad -- and the single biggest factor for me doing this is that my children will not be allowed access to free and meritorious education; they are tainted FCs. Woud you call me unpatriotic? After all patriotism is only enlightened self-interest. I cannot give away the right of my children to a good school (and perhaps even a good job) and feel good about it.
RE:Govt may approach SC after SAARC summit
by Anil Kumar on Apr 02, 2007 12:28 PM Permalink
Indian Culture is totally different fm Worls Culture man, In Indian the uppercast controlled the education near 5000 years, the SC/ST/OBC etc are started education fluently 40 years back only, they can't cover the genetic advantage of the uppercast here. The reservation i a right allowing by the constitution, and it is not a favour, 5000 years of full control in education what quality the uppercast given to indian education??? nothing that is the truth hence pls don't speak the uppercast about the quality
RE:Govt may approach SC after SAARC summit
by prakash sym on Apr 02, 2007 10:46 AM Permalink
Excellent suggestion. What a pathetic situation in India.These politians are making a mockery of education for their political image
