Jayamala is either telling lie or politicing with a view to disgrace the sanctity of revered Ayyappa temple or followers of Lord Ayyappa. This custom is prevalent ever since the temple was in existance and continue for centuries. Even the women devotees to respect the custom. How a cine star like Jayamala can plead for sins. Lord will certainly punish her for the willful offence to the diety and the believers in general.
yes they are human beings...... that does not mean that u need to break all traditional belief.......
now people are blaming Kerala for all this issue... not correct ..In Kerala itself there are many temples where men are not allowed.... only women are allowed....All this are not to be made contraversy like this....... forget this
RE:'Aren't women human beings?'
by Ragavan on Jul 09, 2006 01:08 AM Permalink
I exist in all creatures,
so the disciplined man devoted to me
grasps the oneness of life;
wherevere he is,he is in me(verse31of Part6)
Arjuna, I am the seed of all creatures;nothing animate or inanimate could exist wihout me(39 of Pt.10)Beginningless, without qualities,the supreme self is unchangging . even abiding in abody, Arjuna,it does not act,nor is it defiled(310f 13)
If they rely on me, Arjuna,
WOMEN, commoners, men of low rank,
even men in the womb of evil,
reach the highest way (320f 9)
These are a few of the words of Krishna in Gita.Ther is much more. The facts revealed in gita are FAR AHEAD OF THE TIMES evenin the scientific world.Hindu Gods, do not htreten iwht punishment and judgement.hindu phlisophy shows te facts, What God is and what ways grants peace to you. Te Hindu God does not comand you to worship or acceopt whatever it says to ou. It tells you to consider and choose for yourself .
This kowledge I have taught is more arcanethan any mystry-consider it completely, then act as you choose.No religion , no god can ever come even near te shade of this grea wisdom. The religion is SPACE. I FIND NOSPACE HERE TO EXPLAIN IT IN FULL.
RE:'Aren't women human beings?'
by Kiran G Parihar on Jul 10, 2006 09:33 PM Permalink
Kudos Raghvan
I agree with you totally. No doubt about the things you have told.
Hinduism does not preach hatred nor does it instill fear of any kind. It is the most democratic religion which gives the follower immense options to choose.
The lines you have quoted are the basic crux of not only Hinduism but of all religions.
In this present time when we speak in terms of science & technology, still these words of Gita stands true.
After quantum theroy, scientists too have confirmed that particle as such do not exist, & what exist is just energies. We can see & feel the objects differently just because the energies are at different levels.
Can't we draw analogy between what Krishna said & what the science now confirms???.
And I really hate when somebody comes up with discriminations.
RE:'Aren't women human beings?'
by shiva on Jul 06, 2006 12:26 PM Permalink
hello may be you dont know that there are 100s of temples in India where men not allowd inside.There are so many practices which only women do, if men want to perform them, what do you say then. We have to respect traditions.Learn basics first.Give respect take respect.Before pointing a finger on some once frst look at yourself howmany fingers pointing you.
most people created these rules are stupid guys or they think intelligent and they want to control society....but these years, who cares about this stupid guys....if women are not allowed let them start strikes and quit thier religious beliefs if not allowed.....if they really want to enter temple...otherwise keep mum and do some work creative for the nation
RE:Women infront of god
by senthil on Jul 05, 2006 07:53 PM Permalink
being a christian you should not talk about Hindu religion without understanding the real reasons. I ask one simple question to you, If I kill you by a gun, will your family members and other relative will hang the gun around your neck? if Jesus crucified in the cross, but all the christian wear the cross in their neck. Is this rationalism? No it is beleive. No one can question it! hence, you keep quiet and dnot poke your nose other religion sentimental issues.
RE:Women infront of god
by v srinivas on Jul 05, 2006 06:46 PM Permalink
non-hindus, stay away from making statements on the controversy.there are many pot holes and loop holes in your religion too. hindus will decide for themselves
RE:Women infront of god
by Amitha on Jul 06, 2006 10:54 AM Permalink
Hello your mean to say quid the hinduism and join the christianity. Tel me one thing Mr. Why do you people keep Fathers (Priests) in church ? Why can a Nun can take the charge of Fathers and run the church? Why you want male only. tell me boss Y single female has not become Pope and you are not allowing the females to become Pope
That seems to be an open invitation for conversion!
Yes, Hindus are well aware of the agenda of the Christian missionaries in particular and christian community in general.
We have been following this tradition for years. No Hindu women (I mean who belive in HInduism and worship) have any complaint against this tradition.
Jayamala is telling the biggest lie on earth. Anybody who have ever visited any temple in Kerala know that touching idol is not possible as it is kept at a distance in a room and the devotees have to stand outside that room and pray. So even if you fall in the jostling, you won't come anywhere near to the Idol. It is a calculated ploy of publicity by Jamala and other interested parties.
RE:Women infront of god
by Raghavan on Jul 09, 2006 12:27 AM Permalink
It is seen that most of those who talk vehemently of tradition etc donot seem to know even an iota of the natue of the Hindu religion and the hindu deities.A hindu should not be a blind believer in anything if he has any respect for Lord krishna and his teachings in bhavad Gita. youkave a wonderful treasure of knowledge in it.God is omnippresent . Ther is no power on earth which can show me a speck of a spot on this universe , where God is not present . He is is dirt too.No object ,animate or inanimater can exist without HIM. These words of theLord is scientifically proved by Physicists , chemists and Cosmologists , who do not know anything about Gita.It is too deep a thing forte charlatans proclaiming to be priests, Tantrics and Astrologers.It is unfortunat that the Great hindu religion is denigrted by people claiming to be experts and Priests.They do not know him , even according to the words of Krishna himself. Read Gita wit a open mind.Do not be a ram and follow the traditions of ignoramuses.They have damaged e image of the Great Hindu Philosophy, the only scientific religion that really shows the God to you. Remember what Krishna showed to Arjuna. It is THE UNIVERSE , THE VOID
Sabrimala Sri Lord Ayyappan is very powerful, it's not easy for anyone to enter that place where idol is kept.
Before the place where we can stand and worship lord, there is a big vessel for putting money then there are 4 steps and from that place it's about 8 to 10 foot distance where the idol is.
so it's not easy for anyone to enter that room where there are surrounded by thousands of pilgrims.
RE:jayamala's sabarimala entry
by Magesh on Jul 06, 2006 10:47 AM Permalink
YOUR VIEW IS 100% true. I had been as a pilgrim more than 7 times. Atleast 10 feet distance is there between deity and obstruction.
Its very sad that waht once to be the mighty and the most scientific religion has been shattered by some real sick people who self proclaim to be the saviour of religion. They cant define and protect the greatest religion and that Humanity and calim to saveguard Hinduism. Whats happening ...Its time to redifine and reinvent Hinduism once again
Its a shame that such a purified place like sabarimala has been drawn into a controversy by an actress. I strongly believe that one should adhere to the custom and tradition that is followed in a particular temple and respect it if you are a devotee to that particular god.
Its too pity that Karnataka politicians who doesnt even where sabarimala stands and what is the ideology behind non entry of women between the age of 13 to 50 are creating a stir out of nothing.
RE:Sabarimala
by Voice on Jul 06, 2006 02:07 PM Permalink
Lavanya meets god everyday from 6-8 PM and he tells him/her that what rules have been made by the god and what by human..right Lavanya...these rules have been made by God..Rubbish
I am not a hindu nor am i from this part of India.I just could'nt believe when this controversy happened.I am also surprised,shocked and lost.The poor woman went to pray as an individual and she went there because she believed in God.How can this be wrong?Is there any religion that says women cannot worship God the way they want!No religion will mention that because there is no such things.Everyone is equal in front of God.The people who make such rules should amend it or such individual should be banished from communities.They have no right to decide who can worship and who cannot.I am very dissapointed as i always had a very high opinion of people down south but this is so wrong and disgusting.
RE:Rubbish
by Joseph Mapra on Jul 06, 2006 10:04 AM Permalink
People change, societies change, God does not. If Lord Ayyappan decreed the restrictions, so will it remain eternally. Who says women cant be dovotees of Lord Ayyappan? They can worship the Lord from elsewhere.
RE:Rubbish
by shiva on Jul 06, 2006 12:24 PM Permalink
hello 'SD' may be you dont know that there are 100s of temples in India where men not allowd inside.If you say every one equal and men also can enter , there is no meaning in that. We have to respect traditions.There are so many practices which only women do, if men want to perform them, what do you say then. Unfortunately in hindu dharma people with actual knowledge are slolwy disappearing, that is the reason for the all this NONSENSE.
RE:Rubbish
by Vishwas on Jul 06, 2006 11:02 AM Permalink
Dear Lavanya, It is really people like you who degrade the value of women.I am a hindu and a strong believer of God but in no circumstances will I say that a woman is not allowed in a temple.And you say God is saying this....you are taking the name of God for saying and doing what you want to do.Women have the same rights as men.You on the other hand dont even have enough brains to understand the weightage of the statement made by jamie.Open your eyes man look around you,dont you have sisters, mother friends who are girls,teachers?They are as much a part of society as you are.It seems you come from a male dominated,narrow minded,low thinking family that you can make such an irrational comment.Think twice before saying anything(of course you need brains to think twice).
RE:Rubbish
by R A Krishnaa on Jul 05, 2006 05:15 PM Permalink
Every religion has certain traditions that are considered inviolable. I am a Hindu and have not been to Sabarimala so far. I would not dream of doing so without following the laid down practice of 40 days of celibacy and purity. It is not within anyone's province to question this practice. It is respected by one and all who go to the shrine. If you do not understand the why of it, remain silent. If you follow a religion, do you or do you not respect its traditions? Hinduism is not just a religion. It is a way of life. A lot of good practices have been made into shaastras. These rules have greater significance than their apparent intent. It is obvious that Jaimala is bluffing. It is impossible for her to have gone to the temple let alone to have touched the feet of Lord Ayyappa. There are assaults being planned by Christians on Hindu traditions, beliefs and culture. This statement of hers is a part of this exercise. Her husband was a Christian, so what was he doing in Sabarimala? The temples in Kerala are very much stricter than those elsewhere. Try entering Guruvayoor with your shirt on and you will see! As for Sabarimala, no way any woman can get in.
RE:Rubbish
by Lavanya on Jul 05, 2006 04:46 PM Permalink
For your kind information, these norms have been set by the God himself as he is a celibate (bhramachari). Please do not just throw words at others if you do not understand certain religious practices that are followed by others. Do your homework and then give your comments. Everybody is equal before the God but it is also important for people to respect the norms set by the God himself. These rituals have not come some decades or centuries back. They have been there before the incarnations of Lords Rama and Krishna. Do not hurt the feelings of the community in the name of modernism.
RE:Rubbish
by Padman on Jul 06, 2006 10:58 AM Permalink
Jamie -
As some one else rightly says, its not discrimination. This cult has been there from different Yuga. If you cant understand this you cant understand god. There is a reason for every rule framed by god.
As per Veda A brahmin should not cross a ocean. Do you know the reason for it. I am sure you might not know. Similarly such rules are formed some yugas back which cannot be understood by simple persons like us.
Believe in God and he is there to give verdict.
I am not here to say whether she had entered or not, whether she touched or not. I want all of them to shut and start believing in what God says.
RE:Rubbish
by SD on Jul 06, 2006 12:35 AM Permalink
With all due respect, I think it is you who needs to do his/her homework. You really need to go to the public library to brush up on your ignorance, Lavanya! You said that these rules have been set by God himself. So is God racist now? Because when you say that, you are calling him racist. God saw everyone as equal in his/her eyes. And what makes you think you are any better than that woman? And who says that God has to be a male? It seems like you are a male. You really want to think that way because it seems like you do as it makes you feel better about yourself and superior to women? This rule in itself is so contradictory and racist that it is borderline retarded. India is progressing so much in ever field yet we continue to have such biased and racist and close minded beliefs.
RE:Rubbish
by megha on Jul 05, 2006 08:20 PM Permalink
@lavanya itz sad to see that women like you not only putting up with such superstitions but also gloryfying it sayin itz the word of so called god... ayyappa was a brahmachari...but i wud like to see how many devotees wud be existing when all his devotees also turn into brahmacharis...therz something calld reproduction whch the men who are allowed in the temple cannot do own their own. have some self respect nd get a life.
RE:Rubbish
by prash on Jul 05, 2006 08:34 PM Permalink
How God himself can create such rules.. this is so idiotic and unbelievable that people still believe these things. Brahmins have created these temples to make money. Every person has a fear, what will happen to him and this fear is being exploited by these greedy brahmins. Government should take over all these temples , we should be able to end India's poverty withing months. The total turnover of major temples is more than india's GDP.
RE:Rubbish
by Kiran G Parihar on Jul 05, 2006 08:38 PM Permalink
Mr. Lavanya I totally agree with Jamie God has never set any kind of rules & that too about who should worship & who should not. Its better that you do your classwork & homework well before giving out your thoughts & suggestions & sentiments. The rules (good or bad) are set by people who indeed are created by God. The rules set depends on time, incidents, & place. Each & every rule set is good only for certain period of time. After that it has to be changed. (Analogy: You can take a recent example of reservations rule set in India 50 years ago will be a bane after some time. But still our politicians will try to exploit this rule as they are doing now) I as one in this age(time) in India (place) & over this incident can logically say that these kind of rules of inequality is not required. Just because we all are equal in this country and also in front of HIM. I hope you too will agree with me & if not I will require some solid reasoning.
RE:RE:Rubbish
by sumit on Jul 06, 2006 09:24 AM Permalink
"these norms have been set by the God himself as he is a celibate" Lavanya-You saw the god? Did you have a meeting with him and thats when he told you that he set the norms himself? I am wondering how foolish the people can be!!!!!
RE:Rubbish
by senthil on Jul 05, 2006 07:49 PM Permalink
jemie, You should talk about this issue after knowing the details fully. Hindu reliogion is not like condtioned religion which has one book, one rule and one deity. Hindu religion says God is one and in different forms. When you want to have dharshan diffrent for you should follow diffrent rules. In cricket councils no member is allowed to wear Indian dresses, why? in 5 star hotels Indians are not allowed in dhoty why? Here Lord Iyyappa is brahmachary, hence, women from 10-50 age are not allowed because of menstrual reasons. Male devotee should avoid non veg, sex, drink, smoke, haricut and footwear for 48 days otherwise they are not permitted. Women above 50 also should follow the same. In some religion even during PERIOD also they visit their churches. here it is not like that. Dont talk nonsense!
RE:Lavanya
by Binil on Jul 05, 2006 05:55 PM Permalink
Hi Lavanya, U have written that the rules had been given by GOD and he is Brahmachari. If I follow brahmacharya , am I not supposed to speak to woman? If I live in a world of males, how can I say that I am a brahmachaari? Why should I take such a pledge? What is the relevance of taking that pledge ? Does this rules mean that God will be in trouble if any woman visits their temple. I am a strong believer in God and I firmly believes that thses are man made rules, not from GOD .
RE:Rubbish
by Yousuf Baig on Jul 05, 2006 06:50 PM Permalink
Lavanya, Can you tell me where in Hindu religious books this is mentioned? Is it said in Geeta? or Vedas?. Than why follow the traditions created by some people rather than defined by the holy books.
Do you know that as per vedas/purans idol worship itself is prohibited.
I agree that even muslims, christians and other communities follow so many traditions which are not correct as per their own holy books.
Lets learn from our own holy books rather than blindly following old traditions which are not correct.
RE:Rubbish
by Mrs Ganesh on Jul 06, 2006 10:36 AM Permalink
Yes, I fully support you. While putting such rules in the name of religion, we do not seem to understand that we are making that more un-approachable and less popular. I am sure that all other religions have some or the other weird rules, but that can not justify the weirdness.
It's not a question of women not being allowed to pray the way they want. Hindu sentiments and values/beliefs have become playthings with people like you, as you have no stake whatsoever.
I am of the view that people of a particular faith should follow that faith and mind their business. They should exercise restraint when it comes to a matter of other religions of which they are ignorant; shouldn't poke their nose unnecessarily without sufficient knowledge.
For eg., I have seen people enter a church with their footwear on, but such a thing is unthinkable in a temple. You don't know the value of Hindu beliefs. One shouldn't talk about the things one does not know about. Please bear this in mind in the times to come. It will save you a lot of trouble.
RE:Rubbish
by Sabyasachi on Jul 05, 2006 05:43 PM Permalink
Which is the celibate GOD, Lavanya? All of them have procreated, married or otherwise (read having relationship with women outside marriage). Brahma, Vishnu, Maheshwara, all have wives. Even if you considered mythology as real, read them little more analytically.
Religion is based on faith.,It has certain traditions. ONe of the traditions in Sabarimala is that it doesn't allow women between the age 10 & 50 to enter temple. In Attukal Bhagavathy temple, men are not allowed to enter temple on Ponkala day. It is a complete women show.
As one of the readers point out whey there is no woman Pope? In Mosque too women are prohibited to become mullah. Nobody has raised any objections to these practices? In Hindusim, women are held at high esteem. They are not treated as pleasure toys for men, which other religions do. All devotees are supposed to enter Sabarimala with bare chest. Will the women of that age, I mean betwee 10 & 50 venture to enter the temple with bare chest??? You can infer the reason as to why women are prohibited from entering the shrine.
RE:Rubbish
by bharath on Jul 05, 2006 08:50 PM Permalink
Hi jamie, All religions are male chauvinistic, this is because people made religion. God only made people :). For example look at Christianity, can a woman become a pope ? Islam, hinduism, sikh, jews??? They all suppresses women. I wouldnt blame this issue on religion, coz it is the very hindu way of life that talks about shakthi(kali) and arda-nari. People change the rules, to suit their needs. I am an ardent devotee of ayyappa. Ayypan is a concept which you imbibe, you get rid of wordly pleasures and lead an austere life for 45 days. It is beyond the body. I dont think it has anything to do with periods. Having said all this, the truth is that the ayyapan in sabari is a celibate(believed by millions for centuries). We should respect the feelings of the people who believe in that. Instead of talking about breaking rules (or creating a controversy) set by a particular cult, form your own. Well Nobody is going to raise an objection in bulding a temple where ayyapan is not a bachelor, i have seen some bhaktas do even an ayyapan kalyanam (Infact there are some puranas regarding that too). When murugan can have many forms in different places why not ayyapan.
RE:Rubbish
by Chethna on Jul 06, 2006 10:58 AM Permalink
I agree that women should be treated equal to men. Women are treated with respect here. In fact most of the powerful & ferocious deities are women(kali,durga etc) rather than men. The problem here is some thing different. There are different cultures in different temples. I will give some eg. Some expect the devotees to cover their head when in the temple. Some expect you to bathe in a pond before entering. Some forbid western clothes & many forbid the devoties from touching the idol. This custom is one of those. It is not anti women as it has been projected. The actress is just creating a big hue & cry about a very old tradition.
RE:Rubbish
by Magesh on Jul 06, 2006 10:45 AM Permalink
Miss Jamie When you dont have sufficient information neither about the religion nor about the norms dont comment Magesh
RE:Rubbish
by Viji on Jul 05, 2006 08:06 PM Permalink
Understand Hinduism. In Hindism Brahma is the name given for the creator. Before creator everybody is equal. But Ayyappa is certainly not Brahma. He is a great soul who got godship. He is dearer for Brahmacharis. And Brahmacharis sentiments must be respected. If somebody is not going to hurt Brahmacharis whoever they may be, they can enter the temple.
RE:Rubbish
by Numan on Jul 06, 2006 01:23 PM Permalink
Mr. SD
Why is Gospel of Mary (or better known these days as Mary Magdeline) not included in the bible??
Thanks!
I don't see any harm in women going to any Temples. But please don't say "others" are better in their thinking:) It's like the British who came to india steal our wealth for 300 years, make us the poorest country in the world and then putting our pictures in donation TV programs. That's just false. So please, don't bash one side. the same people who have problems with Mata Amrithanandamayi have no problem with the Godly human called "POPE":) so it's not just indians. Other's do it wearing Suit and a tie and a Gucci shoe. thanks
I love God in any form, and I have the greatest of respect for Gods of every religion.But all this about 'inauspicious' activities in the Sabrimala temple and for which special puja etc is being done, and that the lady in question decided to speak about it at the same time is nothing but a Stage managed cliche to promote the falling fortunes of Sabrimala, and to again promote astrological heretics.I infact doubt that the lady went to the sanctum sanctorium. Not that it matters to me, but being a Hindu by birth I just become confused with so many different views of life and religion.
RE:Women god
by A Keralite on Jul 09, 2006 05:18 AM Permalink
Hello which Kerala are u from? I am 33. So when I was a child women should have been going around in Kerala topless!!! My mother is 72 years old and she used to weare a blouse from her young age. Even her mother used to wear one. So this is total bogus information. You have to go back much more years when women were not used to wearing blouse in Kerala
Then according to ur info are women below 10 and above 50 going bare chested to the shrine? Come on man, talk some sense.
Imagine u are in a place were there is no food. Then u can't say u are fasting. It becomes real fasting when there is food available, u know it is available and still resist the temptation to eat. Similarly, to be a real Brahmachari, u should see women & resist the temptations of flesh. There is no greatness in being a brahmachari without seeing any women. If normal human beings have achieved it living among women, then u are implying that ayyapa is weaker than humans and thus degrading him.
If we always kept traditions we would have been still following sathi and untouchable traditions. Traditions had a meaning when it was formed, when it is not applicable in current era, they should be changed.
These are very old traditions. But we have to change with the time. Hinduism is very flexible. But some people unnecessarily creating few barriers. Because of this our religion is loosing the faith. We should be more open minded, and proove that our religion doesn't have barriers for all the human beings despite of sex, cast or religion.
RE:Women human beings
by Ramanath Babu on Jul 06, 2006 12:23 PM Permalink
Yes, they are human beings and that is why their entry is prohibited in Sabarimala where the deovtees have to enter with bare chest. There is no gender bias as women before the age of 10 and after the age of 50 can enter the temple. For your information, 30-40 years back, old women in Kerala never used to wear blouses. Now you must understand why they are prohibited.
