Dear Mr.Gautier, It seems to be a lost cause when I read some of the replies to this and your earlier columns. The hatred is unpardonable. Everyone is extreme & inflexible. When India became Independent it gave up its right to form an identity around which to unite the masses. A secular state is an open invitation to divide each group in India as a separate identity to fight with other groups. An issue or community based political party means further alienation of masses which reflects quite clearly in the replies. At this juncture, what India needs is unity at any cost even if it means for all the brahmins to convert to a foreign religion en masse which will automatically make that religion a majority and India will get an identity to revolve around which a hindu majority and secular state could not give. Don't worry about Bhagwad Gita, it will remain even if all the Hindus are wiped out from the face of the Earth because Gita gives a universal truth and not casteism as some people think. Casteism is a mere convenient social structure and not a Hindu religion as some Indians beleive. ShriKrishna preaches detachment in Gita, even towards social systems.
RE:Don't cry for India Mr.Gautier
by Shailesh Tupe on Aug 02, 2006 02:25 PM Permalink
Dear sgpal, You have misunderstood me. Nobody is brahmin, dalit or even Hindu or Muslim at the time of birth, it is social conditioning that gives a child a label so it is not a child's fault that it is born in a brahmin, dalit or a family following particular religion. Hence when they grow up they should not be punished for a Society's guilt. It is a shame that Government,such a high authority, plays with the feelings of young people on the basis of caste. In a hindu majority secular state we are too soft and self critical. We have encouraged casteism within Hindu hold and have targeted brahmins for political reasons that's why I suggested that brahmins should convert en mass to a foreign religion as a retaliation (which will never happen). I don't beleive in tissue paper culture, 'Pani ka lota' is fine with me. Thanks.
RE:Don't cry for India Mr.Gautier
by sgpal on Jul 31, 2006 06:40 PM Permalink
If you have one half of a neurone for the entire family put together joining hands, you would ask for and get the toilet tissue for support.I have no hesitation in saying that the more you depend on the toilet tissue the more stupid you are.Understand that your moronic explaination does not convince any one excepting you and of your ilk who are toilet tissue holders. Good bye
why should the caste reservations continue. this is atrocity on the society. politians knew the past, no dynasty ruled india more than 2 to 3 decades by that itself 3 generations passed away. the than ruluers are tribes today. the reason who conquers the dynasty the past king run away with the folk to the forest and hide as a tribe. the people who came along with him as a small tribe they do lively hood by hunting & protecting the king family & their heriditory as their tribe leader. politicians knew the anthropology. communists knew only two castes exist in the world that is have\\\'s & have nots. but Nehru & Indira Gandhi only used the caste card for their survival in Indian politics & power. population verses the jobs is not sufficient to push one caste or creed. even ambedkar prophosised only reservations for down trodden in society only for 5 years. hence people should demand the politicians to stop in putting caste brand in the school registers. if the demand is not met the people should have one option to start beat politicians and bend them to the reality. no more reservation based on caste only reservation for economically backward
RE:caste reservation
by vijay on Jul 15, 2006 09:47 PM Permalink
dear mr param, bihar and up were ruled by brahmins/thakurs, such as mishras and tripathis till lalu and mulayam took over after 1990s till then it these two states were mosr backward of all bimaru states where these germs called brahmins r found in plenty, after mulayam and lalu took over they are still backward bcause the rot perpetuated by the earlier brahmin rulers is yet to b cleaned. if lalu is a dud then why IIM ahmedabad is learning from him how he made the railway coffers rich by over 10000/- crores. cntd..
RE:caste reservation
by vijay on Jul 16, 2006 01:14 AM Permalink
contd.. dear param, the comm which had concluded that the railways will never go out of red was headed by an UC, but lalu within one term made possible what no minister belonging to the so-called UC could do. brahmins and brahminism is dominant in bimaru states and their vicious domination has stiffled the growth of merit among the backward and marginalised section of society, wheares developed states from south and western india don't have brahmin domination and have rich history of social reforms. it is interesting to note that these states have systematically worked towards rescuing the socio-politico-economic spheres from the strangehold of brahmins and hence we witness overall prosperity in these states. its high time northern states also follow the pattern of southern and western indian states. regards
dear author, pl explain how if uc's r discriminated than they still dominantly occupy highly paying service sector, if there r poor uc's then they r miniscule in comparison to obc's & sc's who represent poverty in dominant proportion.why even when reservetions were not introduced in our country we remained one of the most backward countries, pl also explain the inventions made in s&technology by r so-called meritorious uc's, except in copying the west in all respect. it's high time the 'eklaviyas' take over and rid this country of mediocer 'arjuns' ie the 'uc's'. why wherever there r brahmin's in sizeable nos & b'nism there is backwardness,poverty,social discrimination et al, take the case of north indian states, the real india is gaining freedom through reservetions. "you reap as you sow". nature takes revenge and will not forgive till done.
RE:'merit'
by param on Jul 09, 2006 09:24 AM Permalink
South India was shielded from invasions and loot by the North India. Hence south has better law and order. Bihar is ruled by OBC, and not Brahmans. 15 years of Lallu Raj has brought it to that state. UP was ruled by Mulayam Singh Yadav, another OBC and hence it is in that state. So you might want to read through the DMK propaganda again carefully and check for correlations. If the sun rises every time you go to work, it does not mean the sun is rising because of you. Reservations can do that to tbe brain sometimes.
Author seem to be not having knowledge about current population statistics.(atleast 2001 census). The SC/ST population together as on 2001 census is 25% of indian population. if you deduct from OBC % of 52(which u claim in ur article as per 1931 census) will come to 27%). But To my knoledge the 1921 or 1931 does specify these percentages separately. The TRUE fact is that in 1993 OBC list contains 1300 castes and is doubled to 2600+ in 13 years. Another fact is that at the time of classification of OBC after independance some castes which are poor in large percetages does not included because of their leaders who represented well in number. But they are now willing to join this OBC group.
The reservation on caste based is not good to the society. It should be based on economy and/or based or rural back ground based on distance to basic education and health facilities. Get rid of the caste perspective at all.
Rules : grace marks should be added as x% of total marks achieved by candidate Economy in anual income in Rs and levels
1:< 10K, 15% 2:< 20K, 12% 3: 20K - 40K, 6% 4: 40K - 60K, 4% 5: 60K to 150K 2% same should be done for rural people. rest u understand
RE:Poorly written article without any knowledge.
by sgpal on Jul 19, 2006 05:34 PM Permalink
Brain dead merit monger! Thats a nice compliment.Brain dead people do not depend and ask for merit based selection at every level, but ask for any surprise guesses?? Toilet tissue certificate!!!! Tiolet tissue holders do not and can not think beyond this tissue.The more used it is the better! Seeyour brainy logic stands exposed.
RE:Poorly written article without any knowledge.
by sgpal on Jul 19, 2006 05:19 PM Permalink
Your one half neuronal thought rightly supported by the toilet tissue is very apparent.Not all brahmins are the same through out the country, and not all the brahmins did the atrocities and there is nothing to prove that each and every brahmin family particitpated in the so called atrocities. That being the case you can not hold a brahmin born out side india for 3 generations living out side responsible for lack of brains in the lower castes.I am not even saying I am upper caste or crust.You people are shouting out loud to be called backward and most backward etc.Think forward the whole world respects you and think inferior and back ward and depend on the caste certificate the whole word loooks down .Clear enough????
Can some one who does not hold a caste certificate answer these questions please? Was the president of India oppressed person??? Why does the daughter of the president of a nation need a caste certificate to get in to a profession?? Why a converted christian calls himself a dalit christian? Who is a brahmin? Now to the caste certificate holders a few questions. Why do the children of a doctor/engineer/ or a professional from a backward caste need reservation? Mentally backward? As soon as you have received the educaton due to reservation why do you want reservation for promotion and for further education and for your children and grand and great grand children and etc??? How long will you want to remain mentally backward??? When do you plan to use your brains ? There is this principle of disuse atrophy in biology.Any organ thats not used atrophies. All the TT aka caste certificate does is to atrophy the brain cells. Any takers for the challenge of using the brain????
RE:dalits
by vijay on Jul 16, 2006 01:39 AM Permalink
mr sgpal, u seem to b a brain-dead merit-monger, just open ur eyes and look around and tell us whether is there any invention or discovery made by ur so-called 'intelligent' 'meritorious' UC's despite shamelessly enjoying reservations under VARNASHRAM for over 5000 years. There is no escape from the sins of the deeds of your fore-fathers, if u can inherit there property,name, etc then b prepared to accept the punishment for there sins', nature dose not forgive it pays in the same coin, not a penny less not a penny more. Now u brainy joker don't u know newtons third law that every action has equal and opposite reaction, reservation is the reaction to VARNASHRAM and how so ever u try to escape it will catch up with you. CASTE is the only invention of your 'meritorious' VARNASHRAMIS. regards
Well, agreed that govt.'s policies on reservation are entirely motivated by its desire to capture the vote bank...but social disintegration is so deep rooted in India that we can hardly blame our politicians of misusing it for their benefits...And a perfect example of the indian mentality is this article;which promotes casteism in almost the same manner as our govt.Why do we always have to think in terms of caste and not in terms indians as a whole.. Though i agree with this article when it says that govt. should not give benefits to a cerain section of our society on the basis of caste but on the basis of economic backwardness; but do you really think it is the right way of approaching the problem? Giving a wake up call to a certain section of the society will further segregate us... and we will end up in a situation no better than the present scenario..
RE:Think Again...Mr. Author
by Muneendra Ojha on Aug 27, 2006 06:38 AM Permalink
It was deep rooted a long time back. But now the scenario has totally changed. Have you ever asked anyone in your class, anyone of your classmates or friends about their caste? I dont think that we have ever asked any of my friends about their caste. Give me an example where so called OBCs are neglected. They have got enough support of government and being citizen of free India they have every right to fight for discrimination if they face. But the basis that so called OBCs are having greater population in India, they should get more reservation, is not correct from any viewpoint. I assume that you belong to an abysmal poor class and your parents had no means of earning. You would have enjoyed reservation in schools, colleges and getting jobs too. But even after getting so many facilities from Government, your children claim for the reservation because they are OBC, this is neither a fault of society, government nor so called forward class. This is entirely your fault as you have developed a habit of reservation for the past 50 years.
Hi All, I read the article and also the responses. Try to understand what the author is saying. He does not insist on upper caste or lower. He say caste system is bad and is not helping india to unite. He niether support upper or lower castes. The reservation should be based on economic background and after a particular time on merit for everybody. Good worj Guatier. I saw some racisim comments in France. I am soory come see france. I have been staying here for hte psat few months and people have been wonderful. Yes you would find bad people every where. Hence commenting on the entire community is wrong. Even today many upper castes are oppresing lower castes. But we should deal with each as a separate incident and not blame the entire society. An regarding claims of ARyan theory, It is bullshit. Try to read india through indian literature and texts and not throuhg western minds and created histroy. Britishers wanted indian who are by color indians but by thinking they are a confused westerner. I think many indians have not disappointed Macualy. Finally greater ARticel Franco
"Indians should feel Indians first and then belonging to that caste or that religion after." Why after too. Why not abolish the caste system itself. The irony is. 1. Upper castes support casteism and stay on the top of the ladder but don't agree with reservations. You can't have both. 2. Remember its upper castes who created this ugly monster in our society to serve their purpose,the difference now is, its used against them. 3. Reservation is wrong, but itz necessary till the default reservation in the minds of each individual for upper castes is erased.
I dont agree with the author. He says that brahmins and upper caste people have to go else where to succeed. But in making that he is accepting that these forward caste communties have the resourses and the ability to go abroad and make a living. But the SC/ST candidates have no such opportunity or ability to prosper and that is why we need to lift them up with reservations. He also talks about how brahmins are coolies and rickshaw pullers, but he fails to mention what percentage of the uppercaste are doing these menial work. Exceptions cannot be examples.
The author must come out of his prejudice towards the brahmin community and see both sides of the issue. There is also the problem of corruption and prejudice in higher education institutes which are ruled by brahmins (IISC, BARC etc). There, non brahmins dont get the recognition, i have several friends who worked in BARC and who went to the US bcos only a brahmin could get through to higher posts in the upper caste dominated institutions. How about this brain drain.
Franscois has been an advent advocator of brahmins and their rights but to prejudice the argument from the brahmin point of view is not statesman like.
RE:Not true
by sgpal on Jul 08, 2006 02:41 PM Permalink
Resrevation docs are not duds and TN has one of the best health care systems???? My my these reservationists are learning the trick rapidly.Fine reserved docs are not duds.They have to read 10 times the same thing the others read twice to understand.The missiles do fly, but what of the patients who die and the bridges that collapse before being built and the machines that dont work etc due to the dud coins? If they are not duds ( your claim) then why do you need reservation for them?? Your stupid reservation mentality stands exposed.
RE:Not true
by Why me? on Jul 31, 2006 08:06 PM Permalink
<<Fine reserved docs are not duds.They have to read 10 times the same thing the others read twice to understand.>>
Sgpal - So you've come to this half-baked conclusion based on impeccable research - I guess! Good. It only shows the stereotype your cerebrum wants to cherish. You can be a frog in the well and rant what you want - it's your choice - first, try to post your reply in the appropriate place instead of posting it elsewhere - you guys talk about one time and ten times, merit - you guys and your 'totally disconnected from ground reality' empty rhetoric - Jeez.
Vasumathi: I apologize if what I said sounded like chest-thumping for Chennai and TN - I accept that there's a lot of scope for improvement. Basic decency and other things you've mentioned are subjective - I've also seen people spitting paan inside theaters also outside of TN, crappy public transport in Delhi, fellatio under umbrellas in broad daylight on the lawns of Victoria Mahal in Calcutta and other stuff - but I think it's blatantly unfair to generalize an entire state or culture based on its ugly side. If you're stereotyping chennai based on its auto-drivers and lack of Hindi - I'm sorry, then.
RE:Not true
by vasumathi on Jul 29, 2006 02:25 PM Permalink
Dude whyme? i can tell u honestly, i have been to n number of cities in India from calcutta in east to delhi in north to calicut in south, in terms of basic decency, human values and in some cases (not all) also facilities tamil nadu has a loooong way to go. Chennai city in my view is dying. It is going backward. Hardly anyone is left there. Dont know much abt other tamilian cities. The only thing tamil politicians have done is give the state a bad name (like laloo yadav).
And, when you talk about reservation, it seems as if you're taking only medical seats into consideration. In TN, we don't have this problem for Engineering seats, as they are in surplus. When a similar situation is created for medical schools, this too, will pass. Despite having 'reservations' and the overhyped 'doctors who are doctors because of reservation are duds', we have one of the best healthcare systems among Indian states, have one of the lowest rates of infant mortality, high life expectancy and better primary healthcare. Such 'people who got reservation are duds' arguments are utterly racist, and you would know better how such stupid arguments will be treated in France, or the USA.
Abdul Kalam is a Tamilian, and as per the current classification, he is a BC. Don't his missiles fly? You will never understand this. You people are like the judges in Camus' 'The stranger'. You have no clue of the psyche behind a society, and the only way you approach this is to homogenize the entire country and give an 'encapsulated' judgment to everything - religion, caste, languages, cultures. You don't want to accept that India's diversity can still work. Sorry, IT WILL.
RE:Mr.Gautier - you're disconnected from the Indian Psyche
by Why me? on Jul 18, 2006 04:58 AM Permalink
Dude Param,
Le Corbusier planned Chandigarh - it's a planned city built about 50 years ago. Don't compare it with Chennai, which grew without planning from the late 1600s just because it was an offshoot of British settlement.
And, what do you find so bad about the dirt? Even in Paris people piss on the walls - so drop this deflection and stick to the point. Everybody knows for a fact that Maharashtra and Gujarat are more industrialized than TN - so do you attribute all this development in Maharashtra and Gujarat to upper castes, and give the shitty end of the stick to TN because you feel these OBC morons from TN screwed up the state? What about the central Indian states, dear? Jharkand, Bihar, Uttar Pradesh, Madhya Pradesh, Rajastan - etc? Lucknow was Vajpayee's constituency, and its railway station was like a hell-hole. One can point fingers in all directions - what I said was that in TN, reservations were successful, and the progress of the state hasn't slackened due to that. Don't twist facts.
And for your 'incompetent doctors my father is facing' anecdotal logic, and the blind DMK-Ramadoss-Dravidian party bashing, I understand what you're getting at ;-). Wail on, wail!
RE:Mr.Gautier - you're disconnected from the Indian Psyche
by param on Jul 09, 2006 09:32 AM Permalink
My father is experiencing the "fine reservation" healthcare system in TN now with complications caused by incompetent doctors who do not like to be challenged. SOmewhat like Ramadoss. Compared to TN, Maharashtra and Gujarat are much better in many respects, infrastructure, healthcare, business, exports, you should see the roads and ports in those states! Chandigarh and Surat are the cleanest cities in India. Just look at Chennai, stiking of garbage drains with poverty stricken loongi wearing people everywhere. All these Tamil idiots read this DMK propaganda instead of going to other places. I guess at least the DMK is good for that.
RE:Mr.Gautier - you're disconnected from the Indian Psyche
by Why me? on Aug 02, 2006 08:33 PM Permalink
Param - equating reservation with lack of talent (and not with lack of opportunity) only shows how decrepit a thought process can be, and by extending this logic to collapsing bridges, punctured out eyes, silting canals and every problem under the sun you only paint an illusive picture of those over-inflated 'cataclysmic negative impacts' due to reservation. And you come back to the age-old question of why politicians fly to the UK/US. Following your own logic, do you think there is not even a single doctor in India who did not use reservation to get their medical degree? Do you mean to say that doctors who enter medical colleges under open competition also have shaky hands and souped-up brains? Politicians go there because they THINK they can get better healthcare abroad. It need not necessarily be true. In fact, health tourism is picking up, and westerners come to India to get cheaper healthcare. On the contrary, there are also people in US who think their HMO physicians are crappy - did they get reservations, too? Instead of using anecdotal generalizations and preconceived notions as bludgeons against reservation, try to look into reality that always seeps around you.
