read this "electoral politics in the Time of change" by Yogendra Yadav
and "Affirmation without reservation" Economic and political Weekly July 3,2004 by Pratap Bhanu Mehta..
all will definitely realize the need of affirmative action for the traditionally oppressed groups....though reservation ought to be substituted but the qustion is by wht ??in 1950 nd even now nobody has a clue wht else can b used for affirmative action..thts y it continues..nd abt the profound threats of reservation...in pvt sector anyways the recruitments are based on favoritism and not soleley on merit..as per some stats more than 90% openings in organized sector are never publicly reported. wht does tht mean?..
if u go thru the readings i have suggested above then u will get to know wht the ral issues are..just trying to say something which ur dad or mayb ur grandfather told u doesnt mean tht u r saying facts...my prof was arguing nd he was rite tht to imagine urself in shoes of the debilitated,deprived, oppressed and tortured fellow beings from the so called backward castes wud b horrible..people who used to commit atrocities wonn b able to stand the same for a moment if they r at receing end.
RE:Its time when we learn some more b4 blatantly putting forth our views
by kaushik das on Aug 27, 2005 08:30 PM Permalink
affirmative action means: not denying an opportunity to someone who deserves it due to bias.
it is not the same as reservation where the undeserving have come to power.
"pvt sector anyways the recruitments are based on favoritism and not soleley on merit" - get your facts right. the revolution that you can see today is because of private sector.
"more than 90% openings in organized sector are never publicly reported." - because it is a PRIVATE company's opening, dear. who will bear the expenses for advertisement? your government?
many positions are filled by referrals - people knowing some other people in the industry. But of course, after gruelling interviews. Why would anyone take less capable? It is a loss for the owner himself.
I agree with gupta. I would like to discuss 2 things here.
1. The root of this problem
2. Possible solutions for this mess.
1. When we do root cause analysis we will find that public in general are responsible for this mess. We can say what can we do if our representatives fool us after election. True. But if public are more aware of their rights and would trust people who has good character and track record than their caste then slowly then change can happen. To see this we can see the democracy working in countries like UK and US.
2. So what are the ways in which we can educate and enlighten ourselves. Some of the things we can do are
a) Educate women, since a woman can educate whole family they say.
b) Support in moral areas like cleanliness, discipline, respect for others. This should be made as some of the parameters on which to judge a person success (not just money). Religion and state should be separated.
c) Making first 2 points as mass movement where NGO's, govt and common people take part.
This will have spiralling effect. Resulting in we have responsible and educated citizen who knows their rights which in turn will make leaders to act responsibly.
Your article makes a lot of sense. I think it's time that we need to do something about this. Secular, as the Government today claims to be, is nothing but a total bullshit. Today, there are so many reservations for 'minorities', lower castes,etc. This is just weakening us and usually enrages a section in the society which at later stage might lead to some sort of outbreak. This should be stopped at once. Secularism does nothing good for our society, if you are exploiting the very meaning of the word.
RE:Nice article
by punit on Aug 29, 2005 11:45 PM Permalink
...cannot agreee more with Sunil. Merrit...I have seen it. I have seen favours from teacher/lecturers for student of thier own caste. I could bear that and completed my studies only to find I have no job unless I belong to one of them (top ones). Its a shame I got job from abroad and I'm making my bread else where. Instead I could help my country had I got a job in my country! And you know what these people who follow such BS are all educated Phds and MSs. a big shame
RE:Reservation every where...
by Kaushik das on Aug 27, 2005 08:21 PM Permalink
boss... reservations on the basis of castes was an openly divisive gimmick. how can you support that? we wouldn't mind reservation for the poor. we would have praised vp singh for it.
"he just tried to give clarity and benefits to poor people" - well, then, why didn't he just give resrvations to the poor people? Where the hell did this CASTE come from?
"A disable can not run with healthy athlete" - they have events for disabled. But are you trying to say that olympics should have reservation for the disabled?
Well said. Secularism does mean different things to different people and so, the need to seperate the church from the state, as you put it. High time we put uniform civil code in place, alongwith secularism. Agree with your views on reservations too.
I disagree with you on a few issues. You say you dont agree with the burqa, and you also go onto say that religion is none others business than oneself's? So why do you have a problem if someone choosed to wear a burqa, or a hindu women decides to have pallu covering her head, or a hindu brahmin with a tail? I believe its none of your business (as you say)!
RE:Re: Who needs Secularism
by raguks on Aug 29, 2005 06:51 AM Permalink
Dear Ansari,
Author has not taken any religions name. Why are you assuming that its Islam. Hinduism has some of them even today. The Hindu laws are not formed on the basis of Hindu scritures. Hindus had Polygamy,Sati,Untouchability(still prominent) etc.. but they are all illegal. We need to move ahead. Its time to say following
1)The caste system advocated and praised in Ma habharath(Read Shanthi parva), Manu smrithi and even to some extent in Yajurveda.
2)That world was created by Brahma,The whole story of vishnu on a leaf in the ocean.
3)The Adam Eve biblical story... which followers say happened in 4000 BC! (Thre are archalogical evidence of human existance prior to that)
4)That Bible is scientific(Non of religous scriptures are)
5)That our own religion is superior.
6)Burka is for protection, Talak by SMS is great and polygamy is good.
are outdated and unscientific or in plain english BULSHITS.
Its time to libarate the generations to come from prejudice, misconceptions, and inhibitions(with out reason), and finaly from their own religion.
If solvation is liberation. It should also be from individulas own religion.
we must ensure that citizens of our country are all treated equally under the law, regardless of their faith. We must ensure that no-one can cite religious norms to promote practices which violate basic human values and dignity.
That was the Quotes of the Author to bring equallity.: I really appriciate you if you would have said that No brahmin receive the Payments/salary from Government. If you have expressed your opinion on cancellation of reservation to SC/ST & ask the government to give the proper representation to Muslim. I may be bigot, secular or Extremist but not certainly not anti Non Muslim. Secular mean not to degrade one own religion and respect others but to think that all are equal irrespective of religions I certainly call the person as Hyprocrite one who degrade one own faith/religion, how can be s/he respects other mothers when s/he does not care her/his own mother.
I see no human rights are violeted by Islam but Upheld the dignity of either sex. If some one misuse the words in the name of religion then its not hte religion fault but person's fault. Same as like we can not blame hindu religion because of VHP & Bajrang dal
RE:Again Biased against muslim
by anand on Aug 30, 2005 09:56 PM Permalink
i have read ur messages mr Amjad people like u are disgrace to our nation. i respect ur religion but cant forget that ur ancestors like mohmaad gazni and others came here looted this country raped the women here and went away.U are lucky that people in this country bear people even after what happend in the past. we are ready to forget. but today what are ur so called religious friends doing making bombs in madarssas. blowing up buildings killing innocent people. shame on u. go to any muslim country and try saying something in favour other religion god knows what will happen to the person then. please dont justify ur religion
I share your views, bur sure has certains reservations. I agree that a secular government need not sponsor any sort of pilgrimages whether it is to Amarnath or for Hajj. Also I share that likes of Advani & Abdul Nase Madhani of Kerala, who indulge in furious communal propaganda should be dealt with iron hand. But only because Mr. Senguptha belongs to upper caste he is not able to realise the magnanimity og V.P.Singh who dared to take out Mandal report from the freezer and showed a new world to deprived untouchable millions of India. Likes of Senguptha who sit in some A/C multi plex can hardly understand the hardcore and bitter caste system of India. Only those who ever had becme victims of such descrimination can differentiate V.P. Singh from Rajiv and Advani, who played religious politics for their narrow political motives. The day Mandal report saw daylight only is the true independence day for millions of backward classes.
