The inflation has already nearing 12%.Poorer are becoming poorer.Daily living cost is going up and the Congress is making a hue and cry about Nuclear Deal.For God sake...We foolish Indians are not able to find an Indian born Prime Minister that we have a Foreign lady remote controlled PM.Sonia never wanted to be in India,She was stuck here after Rajiv's death.She did not accept Indian Citizenship for 11 yrs after her marriage.Living in Nehru(Gandhi)family she has learnt all the gurumantras of Politics and due to which Congress leaders went begging to her to be Congress Chief.What kinda cheap politics is being used in our BELOVED country?MPs are being bought and sold and there is nobody else to blamed for this but us.We have not voted for a Single Party and made a mess out of the whole situation.With 1-2 MPs these smaller parties are more powerful than Parties having 150 MPs. Thru this board I would request all Indians to vote for a Single Party whether it is CONGRESS or BJP(as per a person's choice).I would favour BJP as Congress has done nothing in last 60 Years but I could see some improvement during BJP's rule for 5 Years. People are not divided but Parties divide them and as foolish we are,we accept the logic given by the politicians and fight amongst each other and taking our country closed to doom each day each moment. For the sake of ppl of India control the inflation and save the country. Seeing the scene in Parliament do you all think they are concerned with
1) Hyde act is not binding on us. but Us has to follow that. if it puus out of the deal after india investing on nuclear plants, what then? 2) We will have the liberty to make strategic reserve, but What if the nuclear supply group, mostly NPT signaturies, refuse to give Uranium?
3) 123 Agreement is binding on US subject to their National laws (Hyde act presently). What if some other laws are passed in future in US which will go against 123 Agreement?
RE:MORE QUESTIONS
by sir on Jul 16, 2008 10:57 AM Permalink
why there is difference in agreement between india us and china us-tuglak sonia and company follwed by corupted officials-no explanation-they should be punished in public for non patriotism-
RE:MORE QUESTIONS
by All Right on Jul 16, 2008 10:56 AM Permalink
Hyde Act is a domestic law of the US as a domestic law cannot bind us as a sovereign country.
It is not even mentioned under the 123 or IAEA Agreements except indirectly that nothing in the 123 Agreement will render its implementation contrary to each parties prevailing national laws.
So technically, the Hyde Act has to be followed by the US if they supply us nuclear plants, spares or fuel.
Here is the catch. While the Hyde binds the US as a nuclear supply, being a domestic Act it has no jurisdiction in India. We are only binded to our national law and what we commit in the 123 Agreement.
So in case of a dispute, legally there is nothing the US can do to make us binded to the provisions of the Hyde Act.
Secondly, countries like France, Russia etc do not have such Acts. This makes the US the least favored supplier. If the US nuclear suppliers want to trade with India on a competitive basis, they will put pressure on the US government to pass an amendment to give India a waiver
RE:MORE QUESTIONS
by AlbertPinto on Jul 16, 2008 11:13 AM Permalink
Given that countries just as US, China, France, etc are in no hurry to get rid of their nuclear weapons, it is the moral obligation of any government of India to develop nuclear weapons to perfection using underground, overground, and atmospheric nuclear tests (just like the thousands of tests other countries have carried out). Only then we should think about signing such a deal.
RE:RE:MORE QUESTIONS
by varghese on Jul 16, 2008 11:49 AM Permalink
The deal is civilian reactors..binding upon it alone..not the ones kept aside for Nukes..by the way without uranium even our power generation will be zero..about these present nuke weapons..Pinto any idea u got about Half life period...hehehh..guys get back to school..man ur nukes are degerating..unless u get ur processed fuels by begging for brown cake u cannot even maintain an decent stock pile of degenerating weapons..thats a bit of half life period..even trusted Russia will not give us fuel..without US YES..so all u got to do is to sign the dotted lines...anyway we do not even have the money to buy their aging reactors..anway not much to worry..they will also finance it..yeah their interest rates will be much lower than ICICI and Munnawallas..or chaddiwallas...thats a big problem..get some air guys...
RE:MORE QUESTIONS
by All Right on Jul 16, 2008 11:29 AM Permalink
The two occassions we tested, we attracted sanctions. In fact the NSG was created as a reaction to PokhranII conducted by the NDA govt. So even before the deal we test, we attract the same sanctions. However, after signing the test, if other countries test, it permits India the right to test.
There was a huge time gap of nearly 3 decades between India's first test and the second. Did it any way curb our progress in developing our military program? No way.
We do not need to physically test any more. All over the world this is done by computer simulation using past test data. This is why Vajpayee govt conducted a series of 5 tests to generate the database and then he and Jaswant Singh went on the floor of the UN assured the world that we are not going to test further.
So when was the last nuclear test conducted by any country in the world - not since a decade. The exception being N Korea. And it will remain that way as all nuclear powers have informally agreed that they will ban physical tests
RE:MORE QUESTIONS
by AlbertPinto on Jul 16, 2008 11:49 AM Permalink
Incorrect again. If computers were so good at testing machinery, hundreds of expensive LCA test flights would not have been needed. We could have flown LCA five times and then said that there is enough data to do the rest of the testing in computers.
Similary, if computers were so good at testing, France and other countries would not have any need to carry out live nuclear bomb tests (where they actually drop nuclear bombs from a plain and see if its blows up).
Five tests do not lead to anything reliable. Would you ride on a plane that has only been tested five times?
Nuclear weapons are not developed for normal times. They are there to protect the country during unusual times.
RE:MORE QUESTIONS
by Shaan Nair on Jul 16, 2008 12:17 PM Permalink
Its true that computer simulation cannot entirely replace physical nuke tests ... how ever the parameters recorded in a series of tests may form the basis to have entirely comp simulated design improvements and to calculate the destructive power. The P5 have stopped testing since the last decade ( france and China were the last ones before pokhran 2) and are entirely relying on computer simulations. As per indian nuke scientists they managed to gather enough inputs for computer based simulations from the pokhran 2 .
Developing a 4th generation fighter is a different ball game all together where the major aspects of avionics , armaments etc depends on numerous sub technologies and their inter compatibility.
RE:MORE QUESTIONS
by varghese on Jul 16, 2008 10:45 AM Permalink
Civilian reactors have nothing to do with our Bomb programme..nothing..so if disruption of fule is from USA..other NSG group members will help us..if Hyde or some superhyde comes..it has to be agreed upon and accepted by India..as we are not subject to laws made after this deal is struck...this every body knows..funny fellow..are u not aware of local laws of this land..why do u write without knowing the basis of laws or having insight or commonsense ..if u do not understand simple procedures of law making not underatnd how laws operate or deals are struck..or a pact is amde why scream ur limited knowledge..please guys do some homework..try to study how projects are implemented..how bpos operate,how turnkey projects get handed over,tech transfers between 2 nations..then write ..petty knowledge is dangerous..sucide..
RE:MORE QUESTIONS
by roy philip on Jul 16, 2008 10:50 AM Permalink
If you don't know dont talk varghese laws are for fools this partnership will cause harm to the country than good. I takes vision to understand it.
RE:MORE QUESTIONS
by murli nair on Jul 16, 2008 01:02 PM Permalink
That is a foolish assumption. If the US refuses to supply fuel, it can damn well coerce other NSG members not to supply as well, just as it can arm twist NSG members into supporitng this agreement. Dont compare India with US, its like comparing a candle with the sun. We have nowhere their influence and power.
RE:MORE QUESTIONS
by AlbertPinto on Jul 16, 2008 10:52 AM Permalink
Completely incorrect. NSG countries act as a group when it comes to nuclear issues. If US applies Hyde act, other NSG countries will follow and all the investment in the nuclear energy will go waste. In any case, the deal will make it more difficult for India to refine its nuclear weapons which China, US, and other countries have refined to perfection through thousands of test. 5 tests does not lead to a reliable nuclear deterrent.
RE:MORE QUESTIONS
by varghese on Jul 16, 2008 11:35 AM Permalink
how come NSG countries have no national pride..lol..looks like even NSG countries are subject to US laws..and it seems good for each one of them..hehehe..looks like these NSG countries have no national pride..save India..comeon guys give us a break..Pride at what cost..yeah national growth..40 yrs with pride..what ahve we acheived...we cannot even ahve an decent road without holes nationwide..whats the use of this so called national pride when almost all seem to go hungry..lol
RE:When Bush%u2019s hands are covered with the blood of innocent nonwhites and congress hands with 60 years of curruption- what will be the fate of our nation after this deal
by Souren Banerjee on Jul 16, 2008 10:17 AM Permalink
Your are right.
RE:When Bush%u2019s hands are covered with the blood of innocent nonwhites and congress hands with 60 years of curruption- what will be the fate of our nation after this deal
by varghese on Jul 16, 2008 11:08 AM Permalink
bush hands...heheh..is in ur blood..what an islamic propaganda..how foolish Hindus are supporting Islamic Jihadis...man this isnt secularism..this is Dhimmitude...try to find the meaning of this word..then u will know how best is Bush compared to any islamic propagadas..USA is an natural ally of India..its secular and democratic..unlike Iran/Comunist or any Islamic Nations..
RE:When Bush%u2019s hands are covered with the blood of innocent nonwhites and congress hands with 60 years of curruption- what will be the fate of our nation after this deal
by murli nair on Jul 16, 2008 01:04 PM Permalink
dont bring religion into this you stupid fanatic.
RE:When Bush%u2019s hands are covered with the blood of innocent nonwhites and congress hands with 60 years of curruption- what will be the fate of our nation after this deal
by All Right on Jul 16, 2008 11:00 AM Permalink
Just like that - a statement. "This partnership will do more harm than good to our country." And there seems others to parrot "Right" You are Right"
These 3 jokers won't have even read the text of the Agreement. If they did, they would provided an analysis why it is detrimental to India
RE:When Bush%u2019s hands are covered with the blood of innocent nonwhites and congress hands with 60 years of curruption- what will be the fate of our nation after this deal
by ajith raj on Jul 16, 2008 09:56 AM Permalink
right
RE:Most important Questions
by All Right on Jul 16, 2008 11:13 AM Permalink
Q1: Why is it so important and urgent now to sign the agreement? If there is delay who will lose what?
A1: It is important to sign the agreement because Bush presidency will end by January 2009. Bush being a co-author of the agreement, will remove all obstacles within US, NSG and IAEA so the agreement becomes a hallmark or legacy of his presidency. If there is a delay, India is the loser. A democratic Congress will only pass the Agreement after making several amendments to India's detriment. Sooner the agreement is passed, sooner India's place as a permanent member of the UN Security Council will materialize
Q2 : Why do we need to sign an agreement for next forty years to come without knowing the likely technological breakthroughs possible in the near future?
A2: Just because we sign an agreement we are not committing we are going to buy. An analogy is that simply getting a passport does not mean that the applicant needs to travel internationally.
Q3: What is the likelihood of kickbacks in the business part of the deal? A3: Like any other business, I am sure kickbacks will be a part
A4: What is the cost of cancellation for India in case next government cancels the agreement? Q4: Either India or US can cancel the agreement by providing 1 yr notice. Even if the agreement is canceled the NSG waiver remains so we can trade with other countries, not possible now. We can even cancel the IAEA inspection by invoking India' s Right to Correctional Action clause.
But why should we stopped iran pipeline deal???is it because of pressure from US???
If we agree the deal, we need a lot of investment in building nuclear reactors..no probs with that,because we need energy for our development...but if the supply is stopped,then what will we do with these reactors????
the deal did not said tht,it ensures uninterupted supply of energy...then wht abt the crores of ruppess???
We will get fuel supply until we agree all US needs...may be to associate in a war aganist IRAN or a base camp in India to attach IRAN ..can we allow that.
If these questions are sorted out,we can make a decision on this deal..
we are here writing in support of political parties...pls be an INDIAN......and think abt its future...
RE:Pls answer these questions???
by sir on Jul 16, 2008 11:00 AM Permalink
why there is difference in agreement between india us and china us-tuglak sonia and company follwed by corupted officials-no explanation-they should be punished in public for non patriotism-
RE:Pls answer these questions???
by Sandeep on Jul 16, 2008 08:44 AM Permalink
- We need nuclear energy as also all renenwable resources we can which includes solar/wind etc. Clearly India has huge shortage of power and this needs to be attacked urgently. - US pressure is no doubt a reason but also pipeline going through Pakistan is probably bigger one. Who know for sure.. - That is always a consideration. Though chances are slight unless India explodes a nuclear device. But India can bank supplies and if we have to increase our economic might quickly enough, we have to go with this slight risk. - No, we do not have to agree to US demands. Any country in NSG can supply fuel(which includes Russia and other countries). I think once India becomes a member, it will not be very easy to remove it.
My feeling is that we need to get as much energy and as fast as possible without relying on oil. That can be a bigger problem in future than worrying about some countries stopping nuclear fuel supply. Though we should have some backup plan for sure..
RE:Pls answer these questions???
by ajith raj on Jul 16, 2008 09:20 AM Permalink
U had not said abt the coilation with US in war aganist IRAN..it may happen...
then abt gas pipeline...if its because of the security in pakistan,why india made an elaborate study in the pipeline process by spending crores...and pakistan already said that they will give full security for this because they too are the benficieries..
and abt storage,as per the deal we cannot store more than a limit and the capacity is very low... so we have to seal out our plants after the supply is cut of..
then abt the suppy from other countries after cut off from US..is it possible..the US will try to stop their supply as they are as much powerful in other countries...and we will get fuel from russia..thts sure..and we r getting uranium from russia nw itself...
RE:Pls answer these questions???
by Sandeep on Jul 16, 2008 09:32 AM Permalink
Dude, it is about Pakistan and also about US to some extent. Remember Pak can play spoil sport anytime. India has considered various other alternatives also like getting pipeline trhough central asia and underwater etc which are too expensive. No doubt, US does not want it.
Nope, wrong. the limit is lifetime of reactor.
If you remember, Russia had also stopped supplies some time back as India was not signatory to any treaty. Also nuclear technology in US and Europe is much better. Bottomline is if Russia can supply Uranium, where is the fear of US stopping supplies?
RE:Pls answer these questions???
by ajith raj on Jul 16, 2008 09:46 AM Permalink
No the US can able to stop the supply from othr countries.... u r saying that for nuclear energy we have to surrender our independence???
RE:Pls answer these questions???
by Sandeep on Jul 16, 2008 09:51 AM Permalink
What independence are you talking about? We do not have to surrender our independance. Fortunately, we will still get the technology and fuel and sill retain our independence. We can even conduct our nuclear explosions if we very strongly feel so. Tradeoffs are ready to live in Nuclear isolation for another 10 years.
RE:Pls answer these questions???
by kieran dsouza on Jul 16, 2008 10:36 AM Permalink
Ajith, to add to your above doubts what about the by products of nuclear energy ie radioactive waste?
WE have already one Bhopal tragedy behind us with MISERABLE compensation to the victims.
RE:Pls answer these questions???
by Arijit Bhattacharyay on Jul 16, 2008 09:42 AM Permalink
We need energy and the nuclear energy is going to meet 5-8 % of our whole demand, and for that sacrificing our independent foreign policy might undermine the whole lot of other supplies (95-92 %) and being a strategic partner to US is potentially dangerous given the present realities of the world and not at all good for the whole world itself.
RE:RE:Pls answer these questions???
by Sandeep on Jul 16, 2008 09:59 AM Permalink
Plan is to get upto 25% total by yr 2050 with international cooperation. Which other supplu source will be undermined? Even Iran pipeline discussions have progressed in last few months with potential price of gas fixed. Onle point of delivery of gas is major sticking point. India wants it to be India Pak border whereas Iran thinks it should be Iran Pak border.
RE:Pls answer these questions???
by ajith raj on Jul 16, 2008 10:59 AM Permalink
whose plan and india will get only nuclear energy to produce only 15% of our need by 2015... and if will not try for other..it will be a blunder.. and the US will not allow us to try for another like the iran pipeLine
First shocking betrayal for Left party MP Somnath Chatterjee has refused to quit. First intelligent communist who gives first preference to Country progress over communist ideology. Somnath creates panic in Bengal rebuffing CPM boss Prakash Karat, who wants him to resign as Speaker of Lok Sabha before July 22 so that Chatterjee can vote against the government in the floor test.
RE:Somnath Chatterjee First intelligent communist who gives first preference to Country progress over communist ideology.
by ajith raj on Jul 16, 2008 08:13 AM Permalink
all these are not still a shadow and not clear.... After all it is a speaker and he is beyond his party....
HLW is accumulating at about 12,000 tonnes a year worldwide. High-level wastes are highly radioactive for a long time so must be isolated from people for thousands of years while their radiation levels drop.
India should forget about nuclear technology and should invest in Renewable energy sources such as solar, wind and tidal energy which we have in abundance in the country. We should also invest a lot of money in Nanotechnology and develop this technology and do away with our dependence on fossil fuel and nuclear enegy completely. I think Nanotechnology is where the future of this country lies. Its time we invested heavely into becoming a hydrogen economy and tapping solar energy using nanotechnoly, which is definetly the future of things to come.
RE:India should invest in Renewable energy sources for its future energy needs..
by kalyan chakrawarthy on Jul 16, 2008 10:21 AM Permalink
solar, wind and tidal energy are not economically viable for the developing countries like India. Solar energy equipment costs 500rs for producing one watt of power, and the recovery costs are long term. Wind is not a viable alternative, as wind don't blow all year long. The research in tidal energy is still going on. India don't efford to wait until these technologies mature. These are short term alternativies like for next 20 years for getting economy clicking over 8%.
RE:India should invest in Renewable energy sources for its future energy needs..
by Sandeep on Jul 16, 2008 09:53 AM Permalink
Very nice idea. I wonder though how long before nanotech can be put to use for electicity generation. Any idea?
Thru this N Deal The Amount of Indian Money that would be Put to Stake is Rs.11,25,000 Crores or US$ 260 Bn.
And Even if We withdraw from the Agreement Later, The Built Nuclear Facilities would be under IAEA Safeguards in PERPETUITY. Which Only means West dominated IAEA will intrude into India and be there FOREVER. The Way out of It is to demolish those Facilities. Means Rs. 11,25,000 Crores of Loss.
Understand Our Forex Reserves are US$ 312 Bn.
Understand The Cost of a Product bought in the Market would Include its R & D Costs And Profits.
Do We Need to Spend So much Now ?
Is it Not better to Spend that Money in Better Water Management ?
Do You Know Only 20% of Rainwater is Harvested in the Dams & Reservoirs and Rest is being Leftout into the Sea ?????
A Reasonable Lake per Village thru out the Country Costs just Rs. 35000 Crores. Which also means JOBs only for Indians And Only INRs and No Forex.
RE:Cost thru N Deal
by Sastry on Jul 16, 2008 12:44 AM Permalink
The secrey of the govt is what intrigues me the most. I cannot answer the issues raised by you, but I expect the govt. should respond transparently. Good work.
RE:Cost thru N Deal
by Sandeep on Jul 16, 2008 04:43 AM Permalink
Where did you get this figure of $260bn?
Govt is not constrained to build Nuclear power plants or do Water management projects. They can do both.
India needs all the power it can get and multiple resources need to be identified and worked on including Nuclear options which are far cleaner than coal fired plants.
RE:Cost thru N Deal
by ajith raj on Jul 16, 2008 08:05 AM Permalink
but wht will be do with these nuclear reactors if the fuel supply is stopped....we have spend crores of ruppes on it..
RE:Cost thru N Deal
by Sandeep on Jul 16, 2008 08:34 AM Permalink
Why would supply stop? Probably because India does something major like nuclear explosion? Do you really think India will be doing that in near future? Also, India could save nuclear supplies(bank them) so if India decides to explode devices in 10 years, maybe we won't have that problem. Remember, US does not have to be only fuel supplier. Any contry in NSG could do that.
RE:Cost thru N Deal
by ajith raj on Jul 16, 2008 08:38 AM Permalink
No..it is not able to store them after a specified limit ..it is said in the agreement..and it is cleared by both govn... then they will stop the supply if they India to come with them for a war with IRAN or any other countries....or they may ask for a base camp in INDIA..if we did not agree these conditions the US will stop the supply...there is no need of a nuclear explosion....
RE:Cost thru N Deal
by Sandeep on Jul 16, 2008 08:49 AM Permalink
Can you guess what is the specified limit? Also, Russia can also be supplier. Does not have to be US. In fact, it can be any country from 45 countries who are part of NSG.
RE:Cost thru N Deal
by Govardhan Brown on Jul 16, 2008 01:00 PM Permalink
There's a bit of deliberate self-deception in the discussions here. The US has been driving this Nuclear Supply agenda over the past three years. Do you worthies really believe, that the US, after pushing, prodding, pleading, threatening, will simply stand back and let other NSG suppliers step in and walk away with India's business? It leaves one seething to hear all the facile replies given out by Messrs Kakodkar and Menon, that by signing this agreement, India will have only trump cards in its hand.
This whole agreement has an economic agenda to it: to get India wrapped and entangled in the coils of America's nuclear energy business. Second to constrain India's nuclear weapons development and third to co-opt India into serving America's foreign policy and strategic objectives. The three goals are co-terminus. The Congress has always had its eyes on the main chance. And this whole nuclear energy business will deliver a huge bonanza to the Congress Party. Hence, the rush to sign the deal. And this was done after sealing a side deal with the Samajwadi Party!
