desperate guy, I agree that we always had wars. ppl got killed in world wars , Mahabharata or whatever but the kind of war that Jihadis are bringing was never seen before.. Killing people in suicide blasts/plane attacks/trains attcks. How do you justify that? There is something wrong with teachings of islam..even in India..when mugals came they used to forced conversions ..mass murders by most of the mugal leaders. Every new religion has grown and expanded christians/Budhhism but none of them used violence. Mougals didn't even spare places of worships and education in their rule. Even taliban was destroying Budhha statues few months before 9/11 attacks. How can a good religion have so many bad followers??
RE:To Despate Guy
by desperate guy on Feb 22, 2008 08:33 PM Permalink
Desi, again you using the same peace of argument..Mughals did this..muslim invaders in other lands in history did that...i dont know what are the authentic unbiased sources of history you have, but didn't aryans invaded India and killed and forced them to worship their gods??? and there are thousands of such incidants.... and hindu people did not forced others to accept their religion because they though all others are inferior and not worthy of having this honor...so this is the conservative mentality not the "live and let live" philosophy you boast thatswhy..the history does not show your reason of war as religion.. besides mughal attacked India for land and kingdome purpose...there was not a trace of spreading Islam..and ISLAM WAS NOT SPREADED BY SWORD OR WAR....this is absurd and biased exageration to disparage the image of islam and distort its effect is being most widely accepted religion by people of all nations, race and mentality... about suicide bombing..did you ask any one of those attackers why they chosen this path? when your home, freedom has been taken and your family woman being raped in front of you and yoru childrens are being slaughtered will you only take a banner of protest in hand and stand for years and years infront of UN buildings and foreing ambassies??? everyone loves his life ..no body like to destroy his body into peaces and die a painfull death unless it has become inevitable....otherwise you want them to die slowly slowly under constant
RE:To Despate Guy
by Gladiator on Feb 21, 2008 09:15 AM Permalink
If the Option is to Convert to Islam or Kill, means then why are you still alive.. Option-1: Muslims ruled India for 1000 Years, if your assumption is true means, then all the 90 crore hindus should be dead or converted into Muslim. Option-2: If the Hindus were successful in retaliating Muslim Invaders and retained Hinduism, then why there was 1000 Years of Muslim Rule ?? Option-3: The last assumption is all the Hindus lived a Nomadic life and Hiding for the Muslims... This is also false... Go to any Indian City, you can see the Palace of Muslim Kings near to Hindu Settlements for Centuries..
The Moral of the story is Nobody is compelled to change the Religion... That is why you are here alive and as a Hindu...
Every Hindu in India is a Living Proof that Compulsion is not used...
RE:RE:To Despate Guy
by Golden on Feb 21, 2008 09:20 AM Permalink
dont talk to these liars. they do understand the truth but hide it for their dirty motive so that common people can be misguided. you know one meaning of kafir is "the one who hides the truth" and these morons are kafirs in real meaning.
You are wrong. During the Mughal rule, Hindus were forced to convert to Islam. This is backed by history. Check in any encyclopedia. There was a tax to be payed by non-mulsims, it was called Jijya (or, Zijya). Those poor non-muslims who could not pay this tax, were given two options:
Either convert to Islam Or, get cruel punishment.
This was an indirect method to convert the people to Islam.
RE:To Despate Guy
by desperate guy on Feb 22, 2008 08:14 PM Permalink
Beachy Babes, "There was a tax to be payed by non-mulsims, it was called Jijya (or, Zijya). Those poor non-muslims who could not pay this tax" In that era everyone was poor...hindu as well as muslims..only the kings and their closer ones were rich... and so if you object to the payment of Jizya by POOR NON MUSLIMS in a muslim ruled state..so now we muslims should also not give tax to the government in present hindu ruled India... but i know it does not make sense...but it shows you how pompous and baseless is your knowledge..and particularly you always calling " poor, helpless, mild, polite, torelant hindus " in such cases..and then calling them brave retaliators and freedom fighters who resisted agaisnt muslim tyranny in other contexts....TWO SIDES OF COINS ARE YOURS..HEAD TOO ...TALE TOO....
RE:To Despate Guy
by Golden on Feb 21, 2008 09:32 AM Permalink
let me tell you something, you guys are confused for long about: first thing first: yes, have you been forced to convert then there would not have been 80% of the public out of islam today. which encyclopedia you aer re fereing man. better look into history. these encyclopedia and dectionary keep on changing their meaning depending their requirement. fundamentalism started from christianity but today they refer it to directely islam. shame on these educational institutions who are so much engaged in this dirty maligning business. second thing: zijya...may i know if govt has got any tax to collect from its public or not? how will the govt run otherwise? indian govt asks me to pay IT can i curse it for this tax and abuse it for this tax? do you have any other tax paid to muslims? no you are just enjoying with simple jizya. do you know what muslims pays in muslim regime? he pays, Zakat, Khairaat, Sadaqa and add these. even zakat the obligatory tax itself is much more than your jiziya. since zakat was an islamic tax so non-muslims were not forced to pay it so they were paying a lesser amount of jiziya to the govt. where is the wrong in this. you dont know anything but simply try to malign msuilms and islam by getting motivated by your dirty leaders. some muslim king were appeasing hindus and did not put this tax but some did and how can you curse this. can i curse indian govt for taking IT from me? correct yourself and follow the truth, liars will taste the dust very soon.
RE:To Despate Guy
by desperate guy on Feb 22, 2008 09:44 PM Permalink
Mohan Kini, again ..talk about present..what is your perception and what you have to say about, BJP RSS and its leaders..VHP Indian Military torturing Kashmiri Muslims? Arial sharone George Bush Tony Blair Collin Powell UN resolutions and international laws bein clearly violated by Israel and America.... Sikh Masaccre in 1983 Raj Thackrey's supporters killing north Indians?? and thoussands are there....you know for yourself if you read newspapers and suppose we give verdict about Aurangazeb that he was GUILTY..do you ahve time machine to take Indian military with you back..and attack and capture him and bring him to justice by Indian Constitution? don't you see there is no logic in you peoples always accusing of past and history..that means you dont have any solid things to accuse us in present and you try to hide your faces and say something for sake of argument by mentioning history only?????
I mentioned that only the poor non-muslims who could not pay the Zijya tax had to convert to Islam. Those who could pay the tax were allowed to keep their religions.
That is the reason that today only about 15% people are muslims, and 80% are still Hindus. And I think, that is also ONE of the reasons, why the muslims in India are realtively poorer than the Hindus. (This is my observation only).
second point:
The tax called Zijya was only for the non-muslims, in addition to the land taxes (for all). Even Hindus had to pay "pilgrimage" tax for going to Hindu pilgrimage sites.
Excerpt from article by Richard Hooker:
The most important part of the bureaucracy was tax collection. Akbar made several innovations. His tax, like all other states, was a land tax that amounted to one-third of the value of the crops produced on it each year. However, the tax was assessed equally on every member of the empire%u2014a radical innovation considering that every other state in the sixteenth century rarely taxed the nobility. He also eliminated the tax assessed on non-Muslims. From the beginning of the Islamic expansion, a special tax was levied on non-believers. This special tax, called the jizya , was bitterly resented all during the history of Muslim rule in India. In addition, Muslim rulers in India charged a "pilgrimage" tax on unbelievers travelling to various Hindu pilgrimage sites. Akbar eliminated this tax in 1564. -----------------
RE:To Despate Guy
by Bharat Engineer on Feb 21, 2008 10:04 AM Permalink
To Gladiator: "Every Muslim in India is a Living Proof that their forefathers where converted by hook or crook..."
The killed their own brothers because they were dishonest. But they do not kill others just because someone does not belong to their own faith/religion.
Ask yourself, what do you think about a Jew? Do you not have hatred?? I know you surely have.
Hindus do not have any hatred for any religions. I have many of my close friends who are muslims.
RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:To Despate Guy
by desperate guy on Feb 22, 2008 08:43 PM Permalink
Beachy babes, @"Ask yourself, what do you think about a Jew? Do you not have hatred?? I know you surely have. Hindus do not have any hatred for any religions." Bravo...didn't you read the messeges of other peoples here...and count for yourself no of hatred messeges against muslims in this blog verses unbiased secular messeges... doesn't it looks quite contradictory to your own statment above???...hahahaha..Hindus dont have any hatred for another religion...very funny.... but i will add..a little correction...NOT ALL HINDU have a hatred for other religion particularly muslims...this one looks correct and satisfies the responses of other messeges in this blog... about jews...i dont know from where you get these assumptions... again it is exageration.. we dont hate ALL jews...and it is a fact...
RE:RE:RE:RE:To Despate Guy
by lawrence fernandes on Feb 21, 2008 10:11 AM Permalink
That idiot Golden teaching Islam. It's known fact that at present the world's biggest threat is Islam. Madrassa teaches hatred and motivate students to kill other religions by saying "Kill your other religion enemies and those who are martyred will be greeted by dozen virgin angles at Jannat". I would say it's high time those Muslim intellectuals come together and say in public the wrong teachings of Madrassa's. These people will never allow to live peacefully.
RE:RE:RE:To Despate Guy
by desperate guy on Feb 22, 2008 08:20 PM Permalink
Beachy Babes, @"Even now, muslims have a killing attitude towards the Jews, just because they are jews" looks like you never heard the zionism???? and watch the following documentary in Google video as a proof... "Peace, Propaganda & Promised Land"
AND muslims do not have killing attitude towards all jews....that is an exagerated assumption towards yourside.... and always talk after making two way inquiries..and collecting unbiased data...dont start blowing your own trumpet as soon as some poison is put in your ears...
RE:To Despate Guy
by JGN on Feb 21, 2008 12:13 PM Permalink
The general policy of most of the rulers during the 700 years of Muslim occupation of India was to systematically replace the fabric of Hindu society and culture with a Muslim culture. They tried to destroy Indian religions, language and places of knowledge (universities e.g Nalanda and Taxshila were totally destroyed by Muslims). They destroyed and desecrated places of thousands of temples including Somnath, Mathura, Benaras, Ayodhaya, Kannauj, Thaneswar and in other places. There was wholesale slaughter of the monks and priests and innocent Hindus with the aim to wipe out the intellectual bedrock of the people they overran.
The Muslims could not subjugate India with ease and were never able to rule it entirely. There was a valiant and ceaseless struggle for independence by Hindus to deliver India from Muslim tyranny. The Rajputs, Jats, Marathas and Sikhs led this struggle in North India. In the South this struggle was embodied in the Vijayanagar Empire. This struggle culminated when the Marathas ended the Muslim domination of India.
I do not hold the present day muslims in India responsible for the atrocities committed by the invaders. They (or their ancestors). were the vicitims of such atrocities. The Muslim rulers did not care for the common muslims. Once having established they were only interested in filling up their harems with beautiful women and building monuments, etc!
RE:RE:To Despate Guy
by Bharat Engineer on Feb 21, 2008 10:06 AM Permalink
To: Golden Number of people embracing Islam is growing like anything... because they don't have any choice, if they are born to Muslim parents, who don't know about family planning.. :-)
RE:RE:RE:To Despate Guy
by desperate guy on Feb 22, 2008 08:37 PM Permalink
Bharat Engineer, Thanks for dirty comments that depicts your ethics and manners... any comment about Illegitimate births and premarriage abortions in western countries and even in India increasing day by day??? But i won't corelate it with HINDUISM...but surely it is the present hindu people mentaltiy for unnecessary freedom, their culture and neseince towards their own religion....
Dude, tell me if I ask you this........ which matters to you most, Islam or India? Now don't give a diplomatic answer saying one is a country and the other is a religion. My question is, you totally know that Pakistan is our enemy....... so you better stop sympathizing with the Pakki morons....... The only reason they wanted a separate Kashmir is for its larger Muslim population. I don't care what religion an Indian belongs to, but being a Indian, need to stay and fight for the cause of India. A not to my other fellow Indians.... Who the heck told you all that all the Muslims in India and anti-India, anti-social and terrorists. Its a shame if you think so. Treat all equally, cos united we stand and divided we fall. Try to be a symbol of peace and harmony yourself before you go and preach others.
RE:TO GOLDEN.........
by PerfectRace on Feb 21, 2008 08:35 AM Permalink
Your suggestions are uncalled for. Just lay off. Yes all Indian Muslims and world Muslims are now non-contributory factors to the world. They are now a waste races. Already entire World knews it. You people only pomp, you people only praise and you people only beat your own trumpet that is Islam - the dirtiest word I really do not want to even get over-heard of too.
RE:TO GOLDEN.........
by desperate guy on Feb 21, 2008 10:15 PM Permalink
Perfect Race @ "Yes all Indian Muslims and world Muslims are now non-contributory factors to the world. They are now a waste races" sounds like Nazi philosphy...even your name too...so waste race should be removed ..haan? what a peacefull,non violent humble, and hospital philosophy ..isn't it contradictory to your so called boasting of Hinduism being polite, humble tolerant, non violent blah blah blah... fact is that when you do it..it is for right cause and it is dharam of kshatriya....and when others do it..it is bad..it is violence..it is trouble...against humanity... what a hypocracy....
RE:TO GOLDEN.........
by on Feb 21, 2008 03:04 PM Permalink
GREEN Earth: despite being 14 pcnt, these muslims comprise 35 pcnt of arthor road (mumbai's famous jail of abu salem fame) population not just by any default, but since they indulge in anti social activities.
Why did the comunity of just 14 percent produce the likes of Haji Mastan-Ibrahim Dawood-Abu salem whereas 83 percent Hindus could not do it?
Its in their blood, quran sharia which is anti kafars.
Indian muslims are just .02 percent or about 11 000 in our armed forces despite being 14 percent on the indian spectrum - why?
RE:RE:TO GOLDEN.........
by desperate guy on Feb 21, 2008 10:27 PM Permalink
on @ "Its in their blood, quran sharia which is anti kafars." what an UNBIASED ANALYSIS man...you beated the whole subject of genetics... about he data you presented percentage of muslims in India and its Jail....thanks..you made my work easy... so this data also depicts how many innocent muslim youths have been jailed using TADA and POTA which don't require any chargesheet..no bail...and no reason for arrest... @ "they indulge in antisocial activity"..true..because you people deliberatly dont give them employment, dont let their business work...try to cut of them from getting loans and goverment schemes that could help them to develop..its your sown seeds....it is the effect of the underground hatred mission you are spreading against them of non cooperation and continuous degradation... and only Haji Mastan and Dawood Ibrahim are the criminals?/ what about veerapan? arun gowly? maya dolas and thousand of otheres..leave them alone what about many MP and MLA working in parliment who have charges of rape, abduction, corruption and murder on them....??? about Armed forces...why did hindutva following party and organisations made so much fuss when Congress has asked to provide the statistic of muslims in Military,Navi and Air force... you people dont recruit us because of your hatred and mis trust.... ok ok..i know..it is time for you to put your neck in sand dear OSTRICH...
Dude, after being in Pakistan, after having studied history, if you did, you still feel all Pakistan has had in the past 60 years is bad luck? Who chose to be stuck up on Kashmir? Who chose to "eat grass for a 1000 years but have an atom bomb"? Who sided with the US against India in their regional game? Who shed all the Afghani blood for decades, in their game for strategic depth? You,Sir, are a moron. Please don't write any more expert pieces, because you junk heads will still go ahead and support Pakistan, if it comes to the final stretch, because you want to balance out all the filthy work you have had them do for the US in the past fifty years.
RE:End of Islam is necessary
by desperate guy on Feb 20, 2008 09:17 PM Permalink
tell me where there was Koran in first and second world war...where there is koran with maoist, naxalites, LTTE, and other such organisations in India? still there is violence...and how many incidants of human history do i have to mention here where there was no Koran and muslims in the scenario but still there was bloodshed..violence and threat o peace... most recently..did RAJ THAKRE announced to beat UP and Bihar poeples with KORAN in his one hand..and brain washed muslim youngesters by mullahs beneath his banner??/ whome you are kiddig man.... honestly tell me..have you really got an authentic version of Koran and red it completly with meaning and explainations?? i bet you have not... you are like a man who is awake but pretending to be aslept..so even if anyone tries to awaken you..you wont woke up..because you dont want to.
RE:RE:End of Islam is necessary
by Seenu Subbu on Feb 20, 2008 10:20 PM Permalink
Maoists are fed by ISI, LTTE is being trained by Pakistanis along side their support to Sri Lanka, all the Eastern terrain of India has been raided by Bangladeshi mosquitoes and cockroaches, waiting for their time to wage jihad..
RE:RE:End of Islam is necessary
by desperate guy on Feb 21, 2008 06:58 AM Permalink
and all maoists and ltte and other peoples are milk sucking babies to risk their lives and stability by the listening to provokation of pakistani ISI.... and you forgot to mention the other problems in India because of ISI like corrupt politicians and government officials...increasing pollution...increased population...riots...opression of minorities...etc etc
RE:End of Islam is necessary
by desperate guy on Feb 20, 2008 09:22 PM Permalink
one more thing..tell me what is MAHABHARATA???? is it a story full of love quotes and love songs ...no violence...pandava's embracing kauravas in kurukshetra...giving them valentines gift and greeting cards?? may be Rajyashri Production should make a family entertainment movie like HUM AAPKE HAIN KAUN from the contents of Mahabharata with no which is a great story of non violence, love, antiwar, human rights etc
RE:End of Islam is necessary
by JGN on Feb 20, 2008 09:56 PM Permalink
Desperate guy, you people always accuse others that we are quoting The Koran out of context. What are you doing? You are trying to justify historical facts with something that is written in a Story. Mahabharata is an Epic (Story) and not historical facts. Mohammed was a historical person who lived nearer to our time and we all know what the contents of The Koran are!
Do you approve of all these terr-orist activites we see the world over? Or you think that you can hide the facts like an Ostrich?
RE:RE:End of Islam is necessary
by desperate guy on Feb 20, 2008 10:27 PM Permalink
JGN, I surely did the same what you usually do..just to see your reaction...and make you feel how irritating it feels.. thank goodness you accepted mahabharat as an Epic...then i wonder why you people making a fuss about that bridge under water to sri lanka ( ram setu ) mentioned in another epic ramayana...i will leave it here.. though mahabharat or other such books may be an epic for you but you people have adopted it as a philosophy of life...you cant deny it..why the artillaries of Indian military has names like..pruthvi..arjun..agni..etc..and why we have different battalions names...and we refer differnt wars and events on mahabharata or ramayana jargaon? Mohammad was indeed a real man...and for your kind information he and the God in Koran approved of ARMED STRUGGLE AGAISNT EVIL FOR RIGHTEOUS CAUSE WHEN IT IS HAS BECOME INEVITABLE... i repeat it has APPROVED...not ordered... and what you people are doing? corelating the acts of illetrate muslims and mullah to Islam and its teachings...if people mis unterstood it and few of them misinterprete it for their own benifit then you can't disapprove the whole philosophy of that concept... It is like science..you can use it for betterment of man kind ...but u can also use for making nukes....does that means science is absurd.... my argument is that you people knowingly co relate such acts of violence with Islam....and when you run out of arugument you start quoting historical events and want to justify them in present scen
RE:RE:RE:End of Islam is necessary
by PerfectRace on Feb 21, 2008 08:43 AM Permalink
Hey desparat islamist, stup. Ramayan and Mahabharat are the real stories for real good battle on evil forces. It is not your dirty prophet or alla who gave dirty religion viz.islam to this world and your people are blindly following. Just lay off.
RE:RE:RE:RE:End of Islam is necessary
by desperate guy on Feb 22, 2008 12:33 AM Permalink
Hey perfect Race, one of your guys in the above posts admitted that Mahabharata is a myth...and so is the case with half of your nation....you have no of God's more than the no. of Hindu's were there at one time ( for e.g. 30 crore gods are there in the stomoch of cow only ) where as total Indian population was 32 crore in 1930 A.D. and you don't even read and study your own relgious books... and the sweet words you used in your above comment, again gives a good example of POLITE, LITERATE, TOLERANT, HOSPITAL, AND GOOD SPEAKING NON VIOLENT HINDU.... and suppose my peoples in these poor and backward countries like afghanistan and bangladesh etc are blindly following the Islam, then why is the Islam fastest growing religion in western world who are suppose to be more rational, liberated, scientifically and technically developed and human freindly democratic people?????... and now you are most welcome to go into next phase of your cycle when you will start getting more annoyed because of lack of logic and reasoning in your argument..then you will start using more bad words without listening to my call..and might be moderator has to remove your messege for being abuse and obscene....
RE:RE:RE:End of Islam is necessary
by jet on Feb 20, 2008 11:17 PM Permalink
desperate guy, ur illiterate muslims and mullahs are quoting quran and doing all these terrorist activities. all the Al-qaida and other Zihadi groups quote quran and say they are doing these acts for religion. It is natural that all non-muslims over the world will think islam is bad. It is the duty of the right minded muslims to condemn and protest the zihadees who are doing these terrorism in the name of islam and quran, but we dont see any muslim leader and people protesting these terrorists. Even u are also not protesting or condemning the terrorism of ur fellow illiterates but trying to point finger at others.
RE:RE:RE:RE:End of Islam is necessary
by desperate guy on Feb 21, 2008 07:13 AM Permalink
if have red my other posts in this blog then you might have not accused me of not condemning terrorism...i condemn it by heart and soul...and i clreay mentioned that not all muslims are angels and goody goody peoples...but the way you poeple are accusing only muslims for all violence and problems shows biased approach from yourside...so you read all postts in this bolg in chronicle...first they start with pakistan...and they have legal reason to be abusive and sarcastic about pakistan...because pakistan is the only enemy of India...China did nothing to India.... then slowly the turn from Pakistan to afghanistan and kashmir and while condeming and cursing to mullah and taliban..they start abusing Islam and Koran and Prophet...gradually..then finally they start directly attacking Indian muslims and Islam.... so the no of hatred replies in this blog clearly shows the double standard secular policy of Indian government and "FEW" OF ITS FANATIC PATRIOTIC CITIZENS... In all my post i have not spoken a word about hinduism and its teaching..though i can...with logical reasoning and sceitific proof I can mock at your beliefs and make you jump in your seats with anger and hatred for me...but it is not allowed in my religion to hurt other peoples feelings..besides it wont do any good..neither to me nor to you poeples...i ready to accept where muslims are wrong..i want yout eqaually accept where you people and particulary government and its policies are wrong.... read the all other
I agree with you fun man...it is sad what Golden is expressing...but it is equally SAD that so called fellow citizens are constantly targetting muslims and Islam Indirectly by aiming pakistan and getting away with that as their duty for being patriot to India...Yes it is sad that fellow citizens continously keep muslims on the edge of pointing finger and taste their loyalty to this country and accuse the of being traitors...no matter how much the FELLOW CITIZENS harm the countries national interst..social and religious harmony...or corruption and lot many things...they can get away with that...but a muslim even spat on road then it is is stamped antinational..anitsocial..threat to nation..traitor.... who gave you rights to judge others? and who are you to challenge muslims rights and loyalties towards India? and you get more drama in the situation by the emotionals like Golden..they add fuel to the fire...and the cycle goes on and on and on...
RE:EQUALLY SAD
by kadwa sach on Feb 20, 2008 08:38 PM Permalink
who gave you rights to judge others? -> WOW!!! Look who is talking about judging others. Islam and Muslims have already judged everyone other who is not Muslim to be kafir and to deserve death and hell after they die... Even when they are alive the non muslim man's life is 1/4 worth of a muslim and a non muslim woman is 1/8th...
Go look in the mirror and then talk about equality and right to not being judged by others.
RE:EQUALLY SAD
by desperate guy on Feb 20, 2008 09:01 PM Permalink
you are a little late...i was eagerly waiting for you...so here is one more example...misquote the quranic verses and laws of sharia...relate them to out of context situation....and label it whatever you want...i guess you are provoked by Arun shuri and other such so called SCHOLARS....buddy...first you go and study about Islam with unbiased mind from AUTHENTIC RESOURCES...read the historical background..time span and perspective of everything...then if still feel like harping on the same string..its your choice...after all..AMONG PEOPLE, SOME ARE WISE, REST ARE OTHERWISE...
RE:EQUALLY SAD
by kd on Feb 20, 2008 10:03 PM Permalink
I am curious about one thing. India was under moghul rule for hundreds of years. Under that rule several innocent hindus were massacared women raped and sold off and temples razed and untold misery and violence. Well past is past but looks like pakistan still is proud of all the massacres and plunder. Look at the way the name the missiles. I really dont know how muslims feel about their history and all tis plunder. I have not read any of the holy text of any relegion but my question why the % of hindus and other religion dwindled to almost nothing compared to multifold growth of islam in India. Why were kashmiri pandits allowed to get raped and sent away from theior homeland while the prime minister of India loses sleep for a terrorist parents.
RE:RE:EQUALLY SAD
by desperate guy on Feb 21, 2008 07:31 AM Permalink
looks like you have a time machine and went back and lived all the 300 years of mughal ruling and hence you so authentically crying about the ONLY HINDUS BEING MURDERED ..RAPED...ETC ETC...or dont carry the things in your mind that have been fed to you without proof...go and read history...again...historical events were the trends of the time...what was wrong was wrong...so my wise freind...what is your solutions to the the crimes of history..that the present muslims who were not even in this world at that time should be punished for this?. do you have a logic for it?. ..anyways..as i told in other messege..when you run out of arugument you start harping the same string..muslims invaded us..muslims attacked us...looted our wealth and land..raped our woman...killed our innocent children....and where did they go after doing this all?and where is the looted wealth now? they should be wealthy if they did so much nuisance? the did only british kissed Indian land and went back after their peacfull honeymoon of 250 years? and corrupt governments in every five year screwing our wealth and how many ghutala and scams do i have to mentions about your stolen wealth? and go and read the Government documents for the status of rape cases in today's India where hindu are in power..and then count how many of those rapist are muslims.....and talk about present..dont hide your neck in sand like ostrich by yelling about past....
RE:EQUALLY SAD
by jet on Feb 20, 2008 11:23 PM Permalink
Muslims partitioned this country and shed the blood of this country. Muslims who were invaders and looted this country and converted many people, instead of integrating in to this country have divided this country. They stole the land and wealth of our motherland. So it is obvious to suspect them in india. The divided this country once and are ready to divide it again.
RE:EQUALLY SAD
by kadwa sach on Feb 21, 2008 12:47 AM Permalink
Really! So I misunderstand but Saudi Arabia, and Osama understand Islam? Sharia says murder of hindu is 1/8 the crime of murder of muslim? Don't know and don't care. What should we consider Islam to be? Theory or what is practiced? Actions always speak louder than words. You might care about words, I care about truth on ground. Study islam! You think anybody would want to after what its followers are like?
Deoband understands Islam? Malaysia which changes the religion of a dead man understands islam? Iraq which takes hostage diplomats understands islam? Kashmiri, pakistani, bangladeshi and Malasian Hindus understand islam in the correct context of living in islamic majority lands? The poor tribals in Africa and sudan understand Arab originated marauders in the right "CONTEXT"? All these should go read the sharia and quran before complaining or it would not "satisfy" you sense of judging muslims for what they practice?
You seem to have studied Islam... Why don't you preach islam to all these people mispracticing it instead of suggesting us who do not care about it at all other than how it makes our daily lives poisonous...???
RE:RE:EQUALLY SAD
by desperate guy on Feb 21, 2008 07:45 AM Permalink
Dear kadu...hindu is nowhere mentioned in Quran ...betaa...mere laaal....it is mentioned for KAAFIR...and by KAAFIR means one who denies the truth, believes and work for evil.. so If bhagwan raam killed rawan then in this situation Rawan is Kaafir...and when Krishna Killed Kans..then in this situation Kans is kaafir....so weren't such killings fare???? and by muslim it refers to a practising muslim..not just any one who is born muslim or have muslim name.... but as I told you..the usual practise of misquoting and misinterpreting is what been taught to you... and for your suggestion to teach and preach Islam to all those countries..we are doing that..but would you people give us a break? every now and then some stooge gives statment in Media and speaks ill about Islam and Prphet..then these people start protesting..then you people label bring their resistance in spotlight and make smart theories what you have mentioned above...then USA feels the have WMD ( not found yet ) or they are hiding Osama bin Ladin ( still at large )...then ware begins...few days past and the some pope in rome starts the same cycle..all the process repeated...then some days passed then some cartoonist does a misschief again protest...you people have made it a fun and you enjoy hurting muslim's religious feelings and when finally stressed under burden of misparaging..unemployyment..discrimination...military attacks...and continuous baseless accusation of what they have not done...cause them to react
RE:EQUALLY SAD
by FUN MAN on Feb 20, 2008 07:30 PM Permalink
My Syed, yes it is sad letz agonize for a while. I am not questioning anyone here. Read all his previous posts first. In one of the post he said indians has to wait to collect their tears when paksitan uses nuke power. So I was asking him why he is feeling so good about it and I asked him to look back at himself and his social responsibility. Do this look like branding. I did not conclude anything, simply asked him to review his thoughts, is that wrong? I am not interested in challenging your rights or anyone rights as I am not a policeman. You are right let me not add more msg to this. As we all know everyone has brains to think and judge and act. Have a nice day.
RE:EQUALLY SAD
by desperate guy on Feb 20, 2008 08:09 PM Permalink
I already told you Golden is an emotional fool like veera kumar...neither veera kumar whole of the hindu nation and its mentality nor Golden represents whole of the muslim nation and its mentality....why dont you suggested veera..or sincere citizen or other people who posted more humiliating and outrageous comments to look back and realize their social responsibility????
RE:EQUALLY SAD
by veera kumar on Feb 20, 2008 08:17 PM Permalink
ha ha ha .... we know abt our social responsibilities ....put the qs to muslim fanatics who go abt bombing bharat and also vehemently justify that ISLAM is the best and others are crap ...
as long as these nut cases dont stop,pls dont expect us to also stop ..
read what that nut case golden has written abt pakistan ....
RE:EQUALLY SAD
by desperate guy on Feb 21, 2008 07:17 AM Permalink
I dont give a damn about pakistan...it is not for proving you people my loyalty to India...it is because I don't have any concern with them and I dont agree with what they are doing...
RE:EQUALLY SAD
by PerfectRace on Feb 21, 2008 08:51 AM Permalink
THIS IS WHERE UR DUAL TONGUE AND DUAL MIND COMES OUT. YOU DO NOT HAVE ANY CONCERN ON WHATEVER YOUR FELLOWS ARE DOING AND ALSO DO NOT CONTRIBUTE ANYTHING FROM YOUR SIDE TOO. MEANS YOU ARE ENJOYING THEIR MISDEEDS. ALL MUSLIMS ARE TRYING TO ACT SMARTLY IN THIS WAY AND ESCAPE.
RE:RE:EQUALLY SAD
by desperate guy on Feb 22, 2008 12:47 AM Permalink
Perfect Race @ "THIS IS WHERE UR DUAL TONGUE AND DUAL MIND COMES OUT..." same i could say about your synonymous Israeli and american forces doing in middle east, and afhghanistan few of the african countries.... you enjoy their misdeeds...even if you dont contribute directly ( though India has offered USA to provide air bases for attack on Iraq and was shamefully rejected ) but still you like it when they kill muslims in their..so called your DUAL TONGUE AND DUAL MIND POLICY of hating Pakistan becuase it is enemy country to India and not because it is inhabitated by muslims ( since you are secular and freindly with muslims..lol ) is been exposed here... all hindus are practically acting smart this way... i m waiting for your Eid greeting card on coming Eid my Indian secular brother and dont forget to invite me to dinner at Diwali festival ...smart guys...i love you all for your hypocratic smartness.... and the biggest example of your dual tongue behaviour is the statment of the prime representative of Hinduims mr. L.K. ADVANI..when he always speaks ill of pakistan but when personally visited their he start adulating Jinnah....Jinnah was great reformer...wah wah wah....what a single mind single tongue policy..so if leaders are like that..then how will be the nation?
RE:EQUALLY SAD
by JGN on Feb 20, 2008 07:34 PM Permalink
Mr.asad syed, the obsession of the followers of Semitic religions with their "one book and one god" is the reason for intolerance. And on top of that they ridicule our native culture (don't confuse culture with religion).
In fact the muslims of christians abusing our native culure are abusing their own ancestors. We all belong to the same ethnic group. Neither the muslims came from West Asia nor the Christians came from Eruope.
There is no proof for the existence of any god. The so-called holy books are creations of surrealistic visionaires. There are no separate heavens/hells for the followers of different religions.
Believe in the basic goodness of all humanbeings and in the principles of modern civil laws. Believe in yourself. You are not inferior to somebody who lived hundreds of years back nor do you have to follow what is written in a book thousand of years back.
RE:EQUALLY SAD
by Vishwas/Jeff on Feb 20, 2008 11:02 PM Permalink
Brother I feel you have misunderstandings abt Christians in India. The common Christian man in India is not same as the Anthony/peter you see in Hindi movies. Mostly they depict goan/mumbai catholics in movies. I am a Protestant Christian and I have a Hindi name (which I am proud of), and unless I tell someone, nobody can find that I am a Christian. SOme people ask me why I don't have an english name? My answer is, I am an Indian and so I have an Indian name. Religion is a very personal thing, something that people should practice in their home and community, nt something by which you judge others. And most Christians around the India are proud of our culture. Of course there are city slickers who pretend to be very modern in views and bad mouth abt the culture, but trust me there are more Hindus who act like this than all the Christian population of India. Christianity has integrated so well with our culture. I grew up in a Church where service is conducted in Marathi language. Even in our weddings we follow traditions like haldi, mehndi. And believe me many Christians in India will not like the idea of bride wearing a dress/gown,, its mostly a white saree. I bet you don't hve any Christian friends or you probably don't know that some of your friends are Christians.. Don't blame Christianity for bringing the evils of western world to India, any given day, any Indian Christian will feel more solidarity with an Indian Hindu, Muslim or Sikh brother than with a westerner
RE:RE:EQUALLY SAD
by desperate guy on Feb 20, 2008 08:17 PM Permalink
you sound either communist or atheist from your talk...well thats a long discussion about who is doing what to whome... but there is God..no matter in what form people worship...you can not deny its existance...a lots of material is there on internet which proved compelling evidence about existance of God...but since you have a mind set..i know you wont accept it... I am not even advocating here Islam...I m not saying that we with our one book and one god concept are the only right people... I just pointed out at the concealed hatred and hypocracy that is being practised here... on the you these people boast being living in harmony....and peace..and respecting each others religion and beliefs...but when you dig a little deep..you will find hatred...hostility...and anger...and when minorites respond to this hatred..they are labelled terrorist..people with violence in religious teachings...and antisocial..antinational
RE:EQUALLY SAD
by JGN on Feb 20, 2008 10:35 PM Permalink
I am both communist and atheist and I have no hesitation in admitting that. The muslims always cry "Islam in danger" and "Zionist conspiracy" is their favourate war cry!
Pl understand one thing, the majority community in India have crossed the threshold limit of their tolerance and are in no mood to tolerate the antics of the followers of the semitic religions. I know very well how a religious person will feel, if an irreligious atheist like me can get irritated (I don't have any hatred based on religion as I believe in the principles of neo-humanism).
The so-called harmony etc exists only till the majority in our country are Hindus. Once the muslims become majority in any region, they will clamour for imposition of Islamic rule and Shariah. Even in small state like Kerala, the muslims had demaded and got a separte district called "Malappuram" by blackmailing the then Communist Govt.
RE:EQUALLY SAD
by Golden on Feb 21, 2008 09:40 AM Permalink
can you please let me know which of my expression made you sad assad bhai. if i have hurt any one meaninglessly then i must appologize. please let meknow.
RE:EQUALLY SAD
by desperate guy on Feb 22, 2008 02:56 AM Permalink
Golden, Your unnecessary favor to pakistan, and stupid emotional threats about nukes and use of teasing words and sentences ( like collect your tears, halath patli ho jayegi..etc ) in some of your messeges made me sad... these are not the sings of a good muslim..no matter how much they lie, mock at you and say bad and abusive words against your religion and faith..a muslim must always maintain his dignity and hold his manners good. If I dog bites you, will you bite back to that dog????.. Don't behave arrogant, bigoted, brainwashed one minded like them...
RE:RE:EQUALLY SAD
by desperate guy on Feb 20, 2008 08:28 PM Permalink
all your valualbe knowledge and peacfull expression of it is a result of exposure to only hatred speeches of fundamentalist hindu religious leaders like Togadiya, Advani ,Modi etc...and to ad a little more taste to it Bollywood had done contributions with movies like GADAR...beutifully crafted and distorted view of the history and disparaging image of one particular community...and emotional dialogues like in GADAR...offcourse they are authentic for you..because they depict all non muslims being GOODY GOODY righteous people...and muslims a bunch of illetrate, antisocial, stubborne people with always swords in hand..killing innocent peoples...raping women..beating their own females...so all the crime going in this country and all the evil things are been carried out by muslim community only...otherwise India would have been poised by now if there were no muslims...where are maoists? naxalists? banjrang dal? RSS? oh come on..these are all goody goody peoples... and what happened to the scams and scandals of crores of rupees of indian wealth being steath by corrupt politicians? what about underworld...oh offcourse all the underworld is Dawood Ibrahim...and many other muslims characters only... thats what you have been shown..and that what how you like to see it....I can't help your nesience...
RE:EQUALLY SAD
by on Feb 21, 2008 02:05 PM Permalink
asad you must know the following before you open yr mouth favouring your co religionists:
An intensive research conducted by Zenab Banu of Gujarat on the cause and effect of communal riots since 18th century (which was a topic of her Ph.D. thesis), wherein she had analyzed and documented major Hindu-Muslim riots spread over 250 years, shows that in over 95 % cases the riots were initiated by Muslims. Her thesis has been published in a book entitled 'Politics of Communalism' (1978).
RE:RE:EQUALLY SAD
by desperate guy on Feb 22, 2008 01:03 AM Permalink
on, you must provide me the sources of "Intensive Search" and proof that Zenab baanu is not materialist who edited her report ( if there is any such report ) like the eye victim of BEST BAKERY CASE changed her statments after being first threatend then offered a big sum of money ( which offcourse our media does not reveal ).... and for the sake of argument we assume that her thesis and analysis is true...then it says in your own words " being initiated " and didn't she point out the reason for initiation? the root cause??? allright..the riots or violent resistance more precisly was initiated by muslims after 1) demolition of babri masjid 2)hatred speeches of fundamentalist hindu religious leaders against Islam and Prophet and other such activities which are beutifully concealed by media and such biased survey and studies.... and why nobody is mentioning here the massacre of Sikhs in 1983? or was that only a myth like ramayana or mahabharata? never happened actuallly??? dude..these TASLIMA NASRIN, ZENAB BANU, SHABANA AAZMEEN..don't tell me about them...everyone knows they did this all for fame, money and protection...
RE:EQUALLY SAD
by on Feb 21, 2008 02:15 PM Permalink
Why are Muslims powerless? Because we aren%u2019t producing knowledge. Why are Muslims powerless? Because we aren%u2019t diffusing knowledge. Why are Muslims powerless? Because we aren%u2019t applying knowledge. And, the future belongs to knowledge-based societies.
Interestingly, the combined annual GDP of 57 OIC-countries is under $2 trillion. America, just by herself, produces goods and services worth $12 trillion; China $8 trillion, Japan $3.8 trillion and Germany $2.4 trillion (purchasing power parity basis).
Oil rich Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait and Qatar collectively produce goods and services (mostly oil) worth $500 billion; Spain alone produces goods and services worth over $1 trillion, Catholic Poland $489 billion and Buddhist Thailand $545 billion (Muslim GDP as a percentage of world GDP is fast declining).
So, why are Muslims so powerless? Answer: Lack of education.
Golden, I saw your postings. I saw your rooting towards pakistan and you are saying they will do that blah blah... I have a question here, so why are you feeling proud of it ? Don't you have any morale and social responsibility towards the country you are living in and towards your fellow citizens?
RE:Golden
by Onie on Feb 20, 2008 07:17 PM Permalink
Golden you are the perfect example of what is wrong with contemporary Islam. You cannot engage rationally with the teachings of Islam, you cannot separate the good from the bad and you want to win your arguments not by reasoning but raising your voice the loudest. To you everything in Islam is by definition perfect, anyone who tries to reform Islam is by definition an enemy.
Well I have news for you. As great & divine as the Prophet may have been, his teachings have since been interpreted and passed down my mortal men. Mortal men are imperfect and it is dangerous to pretend otherwise. Islam, as it is practiced, would be a better gentler religion if it would be open to questioning and debate.
Mind you I do not believe that it is Islam itself that is the problem. Go back a thousand odd years and it was the west that was uncivilised, violent and communal and it were Arabs who were enlightened, rational and knowledge loving. In fact, that so much of the works of the Greek Civilisation has survived, in spite of persecution from the Roman Catholic Church is largely due to the enlightened protection of the Muslims of that time.
But today, it is the interpretation of Islam that has become the problem; the interpretation is rigid, inhumane, bigoted and nihilistic.
If you love Islam, think more about how can you make it a gentler, more forgiving religion rather than think about how can you make the world more Islamic.
RE:Golden
by desperate guy on Feb 22, 2008 01:20 AM Permalink
to Onie @ "Golden you are the perfect example of what is wrong with contemporary ..." I perfectly agree with you for your first three paragraphs..particularly the interpretation by mortal men who are imperfect... But your statment "Mind you I do not believe that it is Islam itself that is the problem" doest not comply with your other statments in same blog...the same switching policy...now after you have been given the argument your imbecille aggressiveness against Islam is reduced...well at least you come to a peacefull dialogue...I sincerly appreciate and welcome you for that... @ "But today, it is the interpretation of Islam that has become the problem; the interpretation is rigid, inhumane, bigoted and nihilistic" ..is partially correct..it is misinterpreted by some illetrate peoples not majority of muslims... @"more forgiving religion rather than think about how can you make the world more Islamic.." honestly...now ..in present world situation...tell me where there is any Islamic Army ivading its neigbouring non muslim countries or lands and forcing them either to accept islam with sword or gunpoint or die? talk some sense man..as per your own answers in above blogs..muslims dont have education..they are running out of technology and sceintific development and all that GDP data discussed above...everywhere you see if there is violence then it is in places where muslim countires have been invaded by USA, Britain Israel etc...isn't their right to fight for their f
RE:RE:Golden
by desperate guy on Feb 22, 2008 01:36 AM Permalink
to Onie So muslims are not trying to make this world Islamic..but surely non muslims are 24 hours agaisnt muslims on the surface and underground....every now and then you bring the same thousand of time repeated accusation..the same set of misinterpretation..and you bring it in limelight..with differnt angles..either through printing a cartoon of Prophet in the name of freedom of speech...or bringing any muslim lady divorce case in the remote illetrate village of India or bangladesh and discussing it with "highered Mulla " and spreaded by biased media.... why don't you come common ground for dialogue and instead of blowing your own trumpet of one sided analysis why dont you discuss with Islamic scholars? why the programs of IRF ( Islamic Research Foudation) or Peace TV have not been give coverage by media?? because you dont want the people to know the truth.... every time same and same and same accusation.." kill the kaafir...marry with four wives...beat you wives....three time divorce... etc etc"...thousand of detailed logical and elaborative explanations are given about these misquotations...but you dont listen that..as soon as we answer one..you will jump to next..then we answer that you will jump to another one...and it happens in cyclic manner..because you have only these much points to play... nobody forced 47,000 americans on gunpoint to accept Islam immediatly after 9/11..they accepted at their own will after knowing what exactly Islam is nt wt is shwn by media...
RE:RE:Golden
by Golden on Feb 20, 2008 07:01 PM Permalink
yes, yes, you laugh, i dont mind, i have better jobs to mind. we are patriots otherwise we should not have produced ashfaqullah, Dr. Zakir Hussain and Abul Kalam Azad for india. but we shall not obey and support for any thing indians or india do. we know what is bad and what is good and what is right and what is wrong. you will find us supporter only in case of right things, in wroing things only hindus will support you. reason is simple. our religion is based on truth not on myths and stories.
RE:Golden
by kadwa sach on Feb 21, 2008 12:54 AM Permalink
These people you quote did not become great because of religion. They became great because they considered religion to be a private thing and did not use the way you are. You last statement "our religion is based on truth and not yours" gives you away. Thank of all or any great muslim indians like the ones you name above and imagine would they ever make such a statement? And imagine what would they say when you say this in front of them? If you can do this without jumping out of your skin to type a reply, you would understand what makes them great.
RE:Golden
by Golden on Feb 20, 2008 07:07 PM Permalink
i have not rooting towards pakistan, i have rooting towards islam, so why does it bother you. are you enemy of islam, if so come with clear sign.dont hide behind secular curtain. i condemn musharraf he is a pakistani too but doing a lot of harm to muslims and islam so i must condemn them. why did you not say that i am anti pakistan (rooted to God knows where) because i condemn mush... the thing is very clear you do bad and treat injustly you will have an arch enemy in the form of golden, no matter you belong to pakistan or any where else. i supported to gallant people of afghanistan (talibaans) too why did you not label me to afghan, while i curse today's afghans who are in minority but ruling and forcing the anti islamic culture and tradition of musilms tehre with the help of usa and its dirty soul selling stooges like karzaaee.... dont label me anything, i am indian but i love islam which teaches me to judge and take the right decision unlike your religion. you will always support india and indians no matter what but dont expect the same from any muslim from any where, they support truth and justice no matter what. and i am much more indian than you because i am providing india a truthful and just citizen unlike you who sells his soul for anything. today itmay be india, tomorrow you will sell for money, if truth is nto the criteria then it can be anything and any time itcan change. only truth remains unchanged lies changes time to time and it doest matter to it.
RE:RE:RE:Golden
by desperate guy on Feb 22, 2008 01:50 AM Permalink
join irf.net and other such authentic sites and see how your mentioned website and other such websites have been exposed with solid proof and logic... also countercurrent.org will show you the secular face of india
RE:Golden
by FUN MAN on Feb 20, 2008 07:14 PM Permalink
dude why do you think I am hiding behind secular curtain, I don't need to. Rooting means supporting, look back at your previous posting heading "God fearing Pakistanis" you wrote "even other country cant give help and prepare some country to do the nuke test in justone week. pak was in fact ready for long and waiting for india's step and idiot bjp govt. of india gave this chance to pakistan. and now the same nawaz is back in power. collect your tears you will need them."
You are saying Indian has to collect their tears so I asked you why are you happy about pakistan, dont you have moral and social resposibility. Why should I care whether you follow Islam or whatever. It is you who said muslims are brave and great. so I asked if you think you are so great muslim dont you have social responsibilty. When I asked your commitment towards country you started to cliam you are more indian than me ! I wonder is this turth, look at your articles.
I don't want to discuss further with you, just think whether are doing / acting good, are you true by your words ?
RE:RE:Golden
by Golden on Feb 20, 2008 07:37 PM Permalink
i shall say again,i am not happyabot pak, i am happy about islam. this land pak is same with the same lattitude and longutude right? but now this mush-bush combinationhas been defeated there and our brothers there have shown great Mattel by defying all the odds and defeating mush-bush. so i must congratulate them. now dont say i am pakistni coz i say my brothers in pakistan. i have brohters in india also. any one who follows the right path andis love of humanity and justice despite of his any race, region and religion is my brother.
RE:RE:RE:RE:Golden
by desperate guy on Feb 22, 2008 01:52 AM Permalink
do you know hindu's ( and not hinduims ) are famous in the history for underground conspiracies...being polite and freindly on face and stabbing in back with dagger??????
RE:Golden
by FUN MAN on Feb 20, 2008 08:04 PM Permalink
you say who follow right path is your brother and below this message you write about ram (it is reported as abuse and deserves it). I don't want disgusting, abusing brother like you. I am happy as I am. I did not use any bad words and you write all crap.. you are bad and I don't want brother like you. Live like good human in this society. Stop condemning others, it is the best thing you can do in any day, this is the best truth of life.
RE:RE:Golden
by desperate guy on Feb 22, 2008 01:46 AM Permalink
Fun Man you might have not used any abusive word mr fun man, but many of your supporters did in the same blog and other replies to the same messeges..any comment about that? and look at the heated responsed to Golden and me..we are two only..and Golden might have used abusive language ONCE OR TWICE....but you immediatly reacted to it... and what about the messeges posted by veera, sincere citizen, perfect race and many others? weren't they abusive..didn't they continuously used bad words for Allah, Quran and Prophet...oh wait wait..I remember now..it was FREEDOM OF SPEECH...right correct..i got it now..when you did it..it is freedom of speech...and when we did it it is crap..and unqualifies us for being your brother.....and here you yourself accept because few of our accusations hurt your feelings then you hate us and dont want us as brothers...why dont you teach same ethics to your brothes doing same thing and all other blogs and orkut communities on the internet, in newspapers, and in tv programs>?????
RE:RE:Golden
by desperate guy on Feb 22, 2008 01:56 AM Permalink
true..and i dont blame you for that...but because you are only once race ..you dont welcome people to your religions ( because you think they are inferior and nondeserving )...but Islam is religion for whole mankind..and mand kind is spreaded all over the world from Asia to Europe to America to China...so naturally you can not put them only one tag..every muslim will be muslim first then whatever his race or coountry is....
RE:Golden
by Mbt on Feb 20, 2008 07:16 PM Permalink
Vik If we are following and abiding the country laws thats enough why the question is being raised who is first and who is last,,,
RE:RE:Golden
by Golden on Feb 20, 2008 07:34 PM Permalink
also if you are so pseudo patriotic and india first kind of person then i am sure. you will support for every thing india does even if does mistakes and kills any one. but muslims wont do that. muslims see what is wrong and what is right. just see this. there area lot of marathi musilms but did they come on theroad shouting jai maratha and killing north indians? NO. the reason is simple, if you bind yourself with petty reasons then this will happen you will support to every wrong things. you will start diving yourself into indians, then maharashtrian and then some mumbiakar, you will become narrow minded more and more.but muslims support only truth and just dicisions. thats what make the difference if you take your indiafirst and religion last. we muslims take religion first and clearly see that it is justified that every indian has got right to live anywhere in india. so why come on road like goons of MNS manoos. but narrow minded persons like who keeps the ethics aside and follow some slogans and some selfish characters in society will never understand this.
RE:RE:Golden
by Vik on Feb 20, 2008 07:54 PM Permalink
golden i read your reply before it was abused and deleted. i really appretiate mbt for his thinking. you know what i would like --- acceptance. i accept islam must be a great religion. i would love muslims to accept other religions and not try to impose their thoughts and think inferior of other religions too.
RE:Golden
by Vik on Feb 20, 2008 07:42 PM Permalink
Golen, are you trying to say that muslims never do wrong??? Are you sure you want to debate on this? i can either convince you, or you can be adamant and just stick to your point arrogantly. but think about saying that muslims only support the right. and also rethink before saying that muslims are broad minded.
RE:Golden
by Mbt on Feb 20, 2008 07:47 PM Permalink
Vik Every religion has some bad elements,,, The best thing is not to judge religion by its followers - judge it by its religious books. There are few bad elements in all religions.
RE:RE:Golden
by on Feb 21, 2008 01:54 PM Permalink
golden why there r sharia laws prevalant only in few countries out of 57 OIC nations?....why does pakistan refrain from sharia laws?...that is because they are not practical in todays world.
RE:RE:Golden
by desperate guy on Feb 22, 2008 03:13 AM Permalink
Vik, are you saying these other people in blog are saying that ONLY MUSLIMS ARE WRONG..and everyone else in India and whole world is good...do you agree to that? do youuuuuuuuuu want to debate on that? i could also either convince you or you can also be adamant and just stick to your points arrogantly which apparently others in the same blog are doing...offcourse muslims are broad minded..not all..but those who understand and practise Islam...
RE:Golden
by veera kumar on Feb 20, 2008 07:41 PM Permalink
yes-HINDUSTAN is our last country ..no matter whatever it may be i will support my beloved BHARAT ...
RE:RE:Golden
by Golden on Feb 20, 2008 07:51 PM Permalink
do it. your bhartiaya man goes and rapes .you support it, coz he is bhartiya.. do it. i dont mind. i shall once get chance and chop off your head as raping is bad and a heinous crime and i shall not see that rapist is abdullah or sitaram, golden or veera, or indian or paistani. yes, there is very basic difference between you and me and i am happy that i am not among you.
RE:RE:Golden
by Onie on Feb 20, 2008 07:33 PM Permalink
That is not enough... because our constitution calls for free speech and equal rights for women. People who put religion before their country (Muslim or Hindu) fail to respect their constitution and create law and order problems for the rest of us. That is why you have riots to protest against Taslima and vandalism to protest against MF Hussain.
RE:RE:RE:Golden
by Mbt on Feb 20, 2008 07:37 PM Permalink
Well some people are mixing relgious issues with the country like Singing vandemataram, Marraige certificate.. thr. is no point to singing vande materam though we are singing Jan Gan Mana (national athem), so i think thr will be no question of loyal to the country.
RE:Golden
by Vik on Feb 20, 2008 07:25 PM Permalink
i appretiate that mbt. and i am not saying you are anti-indian at all. just that i have muslim friends and if they are asked if they have to save india or islam, they say they would choose islam. i wold like it the other way round, although i myself do not know why or what is right. i guess as far as we love our country, it's ok. i hate when people claim india to be a hindu country. the truth is that our preamble states we are secular and that what makes india greater than any other place in the world. unity in diversity.
RE:Golden
by desperate guy on Feb 22, 2008 03:09 AM Permalink
Vik, @"just that i have muslim friends and if they are asked if they have to save india or islam, they say they would choose islam.."
save india from Whome and What? isn't your test hypothetical....and suppose India is being in danger by some means ( I don't know what that will be in your mind ) then if that danger is evil then Islam ask muslims to fight agaisnt evil...so naturally muslims will fight for India...or anywhere.. so those who are not Indian or live outside India..even if they are being killed and suffering then you will not save them...isn't that ironic to what you are crying for? "Islam being Inhuman..reason of trouble all over the world etc" so why u are concerned about the people all over the world according to your own statment above " I wold like it the other way round" and is that fare? those who dont live India or dont say bharat mata ki jai ..are not human beings? their problems are not problems? is it not the same Nazi theory for one nation, one country and one race only?
RE:RE:Golden
by Golden on Feb 20, 2008 07:22 PM Permalink
exactely. but remember our perseverance and steadfastness and true attachment of Allah almighty gave us success those days. today also time has not changed in this regard and we must adapt the same policy of Prophet (SAWS) there is no other way to be succcess in this life and life here after. most of these hindus know very well what their religion mean to them. in fact i have seen some hindu friends making and reciting chaupaees. you know ramayan is full of chaupaees if they sing it looks like they are singing ramayan's chaupaaee but actualy it had dirty meaning and they insult to their god also and if you say anything they will fight to neck and teeth. exactly the similar behaviour kuffar-e-makka had. one such chaupaaaeee i shal msg in the next msg as iam sure it is giong to be banned, but believe me wallah (by Allah) one of my hindu friend said this to me. hesays they make so much of these and enjoy in pass time.
RE:RE:Golden
by FUN MAN on Feb 20, 2008 07:20 PM Permalink
Mr Mbt why are you getting religion in the way. What is your problem dude ? I am asking that gentleman to look back at his thoughts and words. You came in the mean while with old dialog kafir, arabia blah... I have nothing to do with you or your arabia or islam. If you belive in islam you follow it why are you calling me intolerant, I have tolerated your words shows I am more tolerant than you. You are intolerant because you are not speaking to the point and blabbering about some old history which I am not interested in. I don't want to talk about your religion, is that clear.
RE:RE:RE:Golden
by desperate guy on Feb 22, 2008 02:12 AM Permalink
@"You are intolerant because you are not speaking to the point and blabbering about some old history which I am not interested in..." then how about the same things being dome by your fellow patriot freinds " Mughals and other Muslim Ivaders attacked us...looted us...stealth our wealth and property..raped our womens....".. then crying.. ".mummy mummy...punish them now.." Infact you urself did the same thing...but as usual..switching..and twisting..and turning...
RE:Golden
by Mbt on Feb 20, 2008 07:24 PM Permalink
FUN MAN FYI,,, This is a public blog,,, There are people like Veera also it was for him why did you understand it was meant for you only,,,,
RE:Golden
by Mbt on Feb 20, 2008 07:35 PM Permalink
Veera I sympathise with you for your ignorance & will wait for you to break the shackles your So called Gurus have on you. .
Golden, I saw your postings. I saw your rooting towards pakistan and you are saying they will do that blah blah... I have a question here, so why are you feeling proud of it ? Don't you have any morale and social responsibility towards the country you are living in and towards your fellow citizens?
RE:@Golden
by Golden on Feb 20, 2008 07:09 PM Permalink
i have not rooting towards pakistan, i have rooting towards islam, so why does it bother you. are you enemy of islam, if so come with clear sign.dont hide behind secular curtain. i condemn musharraf he is a pakistani too but doing a lot of harm to muslims and islam so i must condemn them. why did you not say that i am anti pakistan (rooted to God knows where) because i condemn mush... the thing is very clear you do bad and treat injustly you will have an arch enemy in the form of golden, no matter you belong to pakistan or any where else. i supported to gallant people of afghanistan (talibaans) too why did you not label me to afghan, while i curse today's afghans who are in minority but ruling and forcing the anti islamic culture and tradition of musilms tehre with the help of usa and its dirty soul selling stooges like karzaaee.... dont label me anything, i am indian but i love islam which teaches me to judge and take the right decision unlike your religion. you will always support india and indians no matter what but dont expect the same from any muslim from any where, they support truth and justice no matter what. and i am much more indian than you because i am providing india a truthful and just citizen unlike you who sells his soul for anything. today itmay be india, tomorrow you will sell for money, if truth is nto the criteria then it can be anything and any time itcan change. only truth remains unchanged lies changes time to time and it doest matter to it.
RE:@Golden
by on Feb 21, 2008 02:30 PM Permalink
There are 57 member-countries of the Organisation of Islamic Conference (OIC), and all of them put together have around 500 universities; one university for every three million Muslims. The United States has 5,758 universities and India has 8,407.
As per data collected by the UNDP, literacy in the Christian world stands at nearly 90 per cent and 15 Christian-majority states have a literacy rate of 100 per cent. A Muslim-majority state, as a sharp contrast, has an average literacy rate of around 40 per cent and there is no Muslim-majority state with a literacy rate of 100 per cent. Some 98 per cent of the %u2018literates%u2019 in the Christian world had completed primary school, while less than 50 per cent of the %u2018literates%u2019 in the Muslim world did the same. Around 40 per cent of the %u2018literates%u2019 in the Christian world attended university while no more than two per cent of the %u2018literates%u2019 in the Muslim world did the same.
Muslim-majority countries have 230 scientists per one million Muslims. The US has 4,000 scientists per million and Japan has 5,000 per million. In the entire Arab world, the total number of full-time researchers is 35,000 and there are only 50 technicians per one million Arabs (in the Christian world there are up to 1,000 technicians per one million). Furthermore, the Muslim world spends 0.2 per cent of its GDP on research and development, while the Christian world spends around five per cent of its GDP.
Conclusion: The Muslim world lacks the capacity to produce kn
RE:@Golden
by FUN MAN on Feb 20, 2008 07:21 PM Permalink
dude why do you think I am hiding behind secular curtain, I don't need to. Rooting means supporting, look back at your previous posting heading "God fearing Pakistanis" you wrote "even other country cant give help and prepare some country to do the nuke test in justone week. pak was in fact ready for long and waiting for india's step and idiot bjp govt. of india gave this chance to pakistan. and now the same nawaz is back in power. collect your tears you will need them."
You are saying Indian has to collect their tears so I asked you why are you happy about pakistan, dont you have moral and social resposibility. Why should I care whether you follow Islam or whatever. It is you who said muslims are brave and great. so I asked if you think you are so great muslim dont you have social responsibilty. When I asked your commitment towards country you started to cliam you are more indian than me ! I wonder is this turth, look at your articles.
I don't want to discuss further with you, just think whether are doing / acting good, are you true by your words ?
RE:@Golden
by Golden on Feb 20, 2008 07:57 PM Permalink
i am fully committed to my country but i shall not support the support of india to usa and zionist regime no matter what. any one who is killing innocent lives and giving money to india doesnt mean i shall support india on this issue because i am indian. only if i am blind and dont know what my religion is then only i shall do it like you or most of the hindus are doing.
