Expire and seize all of the degrees of Mr. Agrawal, as surely he will have all the fake degrees and research papers. people like him are just like rotten fish and a cause to blame scientific community!!
Excuse me and pardon my ignorance... but isnt a degree like a PhD an award given out in recognition for effort put in research? If yes, how can the recognition of the effort have a shelf life? Even if the research after a decade becomes obselete, does that take away the effort put in in the first place?
There has to be some differnce between an intellectually stimulated effort and technology/science fast becoming obselete due to R&D.
RE:Wait a minute! Are we missing the point...
by Joseph Abraham on Jan 18, 2008 08:07 PM Permalink
Munish thinks he holds a special PhD degree. Dont be silly sir
RE:Wait a minute! Are we missing the point...
by SOUMEN BARIK on Jan 18, 2008 08:21 PM Permalink
My statement is that the author said it is absolutely true. According to recent survey the no of jurnals or paper published by china is three times than india, but the picture was the reverse just three year ago.People are not comming for phd because they are feeling in secure because first the comsentation paid is not enough and there is no surety that phd will complete with in some due date.So lot of meritorous students are going to industry instead of remains passion on phd.If we need to improve our quality level then we must provide better accomodation for phd and if we want think it as egree then it should have a limit otherwise it is not possible for general meritorious student to go for phd, If it is going on then some mad people will go for phd. whose have no financial problem also.).Our Indian Gov should think about that. This is a very big problem in India..
RE:Wait a minute! Are we missing the point...
by Munish Oberoi on Jan 18, 2008 07:55 PM Permalink
how will you then one guy who did his phd 20 years ago and did not publish any significant paper in these 20 years and another guy who did his phd 15 years back and has continually published good papers over the years?
RE:Wait a minute! Are we missing the point...
by viswanatha seshadri on Jan 18, 2008 08:30 PM Permalink
You considerv the PhD thesis, along with subsequent publications, teaching experience, research projects, patents .. all things in selections at interviews.
RE:Wait a minute! Are we missing the point...
by Kittappa on Jan 18, 2008 07:57 PM Permalink
people who are interested in such people know how to compare. For example, Google hires a lot of PhDs, they know what they want and they can distinguish between people
RE:RE:Wait a minute! Are we missing the point...
by Munish Oberoi on Jan 18, 2008 08:01 PM Permalink
In India 90% fo the Ph.Ds are done to get a JOB. Whereas the real aim of a Ph.D. should be to "SIGNIFICANTLY" extend the frontiers of human knowledge.
Tell me how many of the hundreds of Ph.D theses coming out of India every year are REALLY aimed at "SIGNIFICANTLY" extending the frontiers of human knowledge?
Most of these Ph.Ds are what are known in the post-doctoral circles as - ghas-phus Ph.Ds - you mix a few leaves/chemicals and you have a Ph.D thesis cooked up by your guide.
Tell me of the several hundred Ph.D. scholars coming out every year in India how many really do their Ph.D. to really discover/invent someting new or significantly extent the frontiers of human knowledge, don't most of them do it for getting a JOB?
How many of these Ph.Ds then go on to do any meaningful contribution to the body of scientific knowledge as post doctoral fellows?
RE:RE:Wait a minute! Are we missing the point...
by Munish Oberoi on Jan 18, 2008 08:01 PM Permalink
I am talking about the relevency of that PhD earned 20 years back... is that fellow still god enough?
RE:Wait a minute! Are we missing the point...
by jai sreedhar on Jan 18, 2008 07:58 PM Permalink
Well mate, your first guy was AWARDED a PhD for the effort he put in 20 years ago. Did you tell him that not continuing his research or not contibuting further will strip him of this- No. Viv Richards stopped batting a decade ago- he was knighted for his skills with a bat. Do we de-knight him since he is not playing anymore.
RE:RE:Wait a minute! Are we missing the point...
by jai sreedhar on Jan 18, 2008 08:09 PM Permalink
No really. A. You are questioning a system. If people are getting a PhD for a job then its the system and not the guy who is at fault. Here let us assume the guy who did his PhD was a decent intellect who worked it out. B. People are awarded on the basis of what they have accomplished NOT on the basis of their current contribution.
Also pray define what is a 'meaningful contribution'. The bulb Edison lit a century and half ago may not be the same one adoring your drawing room... we have moved on from basic incandecent lights- but for the effort he put in we would perhaps contribute to the petrolium crisis by still lighting lamps.
No one uses the technology of the Ford Model-T anymore, is Henry Fords contribution less significant?
Let us please give people their due recognition for effort.
hi mate, get real. To get a phd from a qualified institution, you gotta work your ass off, then only you can achieve that. Every degree means, that at that time, under those contemporary circumstances and scenarios, either you qualify or you don't. Man, you got your bachelor degree in education? think of what the children study now...your bachelor or matriculation degree would be at stake if you think in these terms....get it right...it's not for everyone ...jealous people give big talks...don't be a part of these intellectual have nots....
THe authors seem to have no knowledge of the competetive world. Take for example the top universities like MIT/CMU etc...PhDs are hired as assistant professors and they have to "prove" themself in the next 8-10 years then only they become full professors. This process of tenure is extraordinarily competitve. THere are cases where people failed to get a tenure in a good university but went on to win Turing award at a later stage in life. In spite of this being so tough and not offering salaries comparable to the industry, there is a reputation involved in working as a prof in a top university and PhDs from great schools generally dream of that. We, in India, do not encourage talent, consider caste/religion to be more important than anything else. We basically want to have the cake and eat it too. More should be done to encourage science/research in India, it is really in an appalling state ( even according to CNR Rao). Unfortunately we just keep getting such silly ideas as this artible again and again but we completely ignore the real issues.
RE:It is a pity
by viswanatha seshadri on Jan 18, 2008 08:27 PM Permalink
IN full agreement with you. I hope MHRD Arjun Singh does not read this article. Otherwise, he may come up with bill in lok sabha prescribing different expiry periods for PhDs from different castes of hindus, 10yrs for OC, 30 yrs for OBC, 20 yrs for SC/ST etc, so that kids of politicos can get quick promotions and stay long in service. MK, TNCM, will fully support him!
You envy something you couldn't get. Not surprisingly, it reflects the quality of education you got and also your bankruptcy of constructive thoughts. Please try to do something good
it is indeed heartening to see (what i beleive is an indian) to write something felt from heart! muyself not being a phd, i do not know what may merit a reexamination later on, but certainly i believe there may be branches in study that need revisit this way. certainly the ones that rely heavily on a person being up to date with most recent developments would need to demonstrate that he is in tune with the changes that have undergone since he was declared fit to assume a position. ceratinly like medicines we also need an expiry period for many jobs. it is again a shame that professors start their own journals to get promoted. i am sure it is a reality given the ediotic nature of indian system as is evident elsewhere. there will certainly be a time when teachers will lose their noble status. even in most prestigious of colleges have i seen that such professors occupy important positiosn who are questionable in all most all respects one can possibily think of.......
The author should know that every technical/professional university/institutes have the ruling for every promotion requirements of two advance training in the respective fields is must.The Policy maker/managers never attain such an advancement.This for the information and advancement to the authors and further advised that one should not ponder over unnacessarly. Prof.Hooda Hisar
It's ok if they put such thing on Ph.D. But that should also apply to all the major degrees. But prior to that one has to look for methods which will rate whether the work done in Ph.D is genuine or not. Such inspections must also be done at all levels of education. Then only the lazy teachers, lecturers and professors of our country will do some good to society. If not there will be no more improvement in the product quality of Indian education.
The idea is certainly interesting. But then why must one stop only with Ph.Ds? should it not be applied down the line for all degrees? It is a fact that once caught in the regular grind of jobs, people seldom take the trouble of keeping up to date on the subject/skills learnt. It is also true that most of us are stuck in jobs that have little to do with the education we went through. Success in life often has little to do with the education obtained. Which brings us to the fact that education (in terms of degrees earned) is not much related to the status or condition of being "Educated".
