china has developed tremendously china is a leader in manufacturing china has grown in a relatively short time china has a great shanghai & other selective great cities ------------------------
china has a tremendously poor record with human rights chinese people are totally at the mercy of the govt. in china, there's no freedom of speech in china , wealth distribution is selective rural people are treated with contempt as cheap labour yu can only have one chld, of late they decided the population is skewed, so now people can have 2. its too skewed. people dont have a normal life, its always in a shadow, heck, every mail, or a phonecall is filtered and monitored
and yu have this edifice of shanghai. its a facade. little else.
RE:freedom better than selective prosperity
by arun mehta on Apr 06, 2008 04:40 PM Permalink
interesting u say that..........U think India has a lot of freedom of speech?? every comment out here "offends the sensibilities" of some random and obscure organization. Whats worse the state governments not to miss out on votes actually do as these hooligans wish. M.F. Husain is thrown out of the country......Salman Rushdie gets death threats....movies get banned....caste based reservations are used....communities fight to get registered as backward class(Gujjar in Rjasthan)...India has got a diminishing sex ratio...insite of all the education....nuclear deal gets hijacked by a couple of commies who loyalty nyways lie with the Chinese...The country doesnt have the balls to stand up to China and it meekly disallows Tibetan protestors frm holding peaceful demonstrations...States fight with each other(T.N. and Karnataka)... north Indians are tortured for thinking that they are entitled to basic fundamental rights! HAIL OUR COUNTRY.ITS DEMOCRACY AND OUR "FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION".
I will not trade my freedom for prosperity. If people have experienced freedom, they will not trade it for wealth. We, of course, need the basic comfort in life. India's inability to do things well is not due to its freedom. It is because there is a general lack of discipline and order in people. Indians love to be chaotic. They are OK with indiscipline. Keeping things clean, not spitting in public, not trashing the surroundings, not getting agitated if people disturb order and peace, violating rules without batting an eyelid - these reveal a disorder in the way of thinking, Basically, we lack CIVIC SENSE and ORDERLY BEHAVIOUR. Even if we have the utmost intelligence, this is how we will do things.
RE:why compare ? we have freedom, something the chinese people will cry for
by Ashish Kanekar on Apr 05, 2008 10:27 PM Permalink
But they have land, cleanliness and water supply...
Hey all migrant supporters - where do you think the water comes to support millions of migrants coming from Bihar/UP into Maharashtra? The constitution is their defense - but the constitution cannot provide the water!!!
The water is Maharashtra water supply with dams built in the state and pumped through large pipes to a city like Mumbai.
Water is finite - and for every one excess migrant in Maharashtra, there is less water for the state residents. So will your constitution create water from nowhere Rest of India?
RE:why compare ? we have freedom, something the chinese people will cry for
by raj on Apr 06, 2008 11:24 AM Permalink
china does NOT have a great system as in the west. china is still a developing country china has ZERO environmental tolerance policy - when the living became impossible in many places - of late they have responded. they have wrecked huge swathes f land with toxic industries paying scant regard for environment
china has a huge problem of water too. they are even planning to divert the himalayan glaciers! we have an issue in india too, but china isnt far ahead. they have more teething issue related to the overall well being of the society. people might not starve to death, due to lack of governance, but people might starve to death due to atrocities there!
THERE IS CHINESE UNITY WHEREAS IN MUMBAI FELLOW INDIANS ARE BEATEN UP AND THREATNED UNDER THE AGIS OF DEMOCRACY. THERE IS NO SHIV SENA AND MNS. IN SHANGHAI THERE ARE NO PERSONS LIKE BAL THACKERAY AND HIS CROONIES WHO THREATEN FELLOW INDIANS NO RAJ THACKERAY . IN SHORT WE ARE CHINESE FIRST THEN EVERYTHING ELESE IN INDIA WE ARE SO AND SO FIRST AND THEN MAY BE INDIANS. "DISUNITY IN DIVERSITY"
RE:MANY DIFFERENCES BETWEEN SHANGHAI AND MUMBAI
by Ashish Kanekar on Apr 05, 2008 10:26 PM Permalink
Hey all migrant supporters - where do you think the water comes to support millions of migrants coming from Bihar/UP into Maharashtra? The constitution is their defense - but the constitution cannot provide the water!!!
The water is Maharashtra water supply with dams built in the state and pumped through large pipes to a city like Mumbai.
Water is finite - and for every one excess migrant in Maharashtra, there is less water for the state residents. So will your constitution create water from nowhere Rest of India?
RE:MANY DIFFERENCES BETWEEN SHANGHAI AND MUMBAI
by raj on Apr 06, 2008 11:26 AM Permalink
yu have a pointless argument. maharastra is not a country, its a state. maharastrians dont create water, they have only created dams. the resource is a national resource. maharastrians dont have a first right to it.
This is possible in China as no one dares to oppose the move f govt by planning dharnas etc. We should learn from china and start crushing such demonstrators with an iron hand with force which will leave them impared for the rest of their lives.
RE:POssible in China only
by prabhakar pandit on Apr 04, 2008 05:01 PM Permalink
Yes,well said Nitin,but is it really possibe in this land of democracy (hic) where heads are counted and not weighed ?
please learn from shanghai and change the mumbai with futuristic views. ofcourse mambai's strength is its cosmopolitism. what we want is eco-friendly and modern mumbai. involve people fromall walks of life and prepare a thorough planning for mumbai.as long as city is eco freindly we can sustain the burden of over growth. what we need is lateral thinking.
No comparison! Mumbai is ful of slum! Shnghai is full high rise businesss centers!It will take 100 years to make mum to shnaghai.. If raj thakery's family still in mumbai it will take 1000 years!!
RE:Shanghai wins!
by Ashish Kanekar on Apr 05, 2008 10:07 PM Permalink
And if Biharis/UPites keep pouring in and building slums and using open areas for sanitation, it may turn into a healthcare horror - never mind a Shanghai.
RE:Shanghai wins!
by raj on Apr 06, 2008 11:27 AM Permalink
check the slums -not all are from bihar and UP. yu have a mindless agenda of hatred. yu dont have any constructuve suggestions
RE:Shanghai wins!
by NoManLand on Apr 07, 2008 02:17 AM Permalink
If Bhiari / UP people thrown out of Mumbai it will take only 5 year to become a Shnghai.
We have survived thousands of years of chaos! Diversity is the essence of India. China was a closed society for forty years till 1989 when they woke up and did things in a hurry. They are playing catch up and sets its bench-mark against the best in the world. Now they improve on their previous marvels as a learning process.
We can always console ourselves about their high-handedness in achieving these in double quick time. We can tout our democarcy as the best in the world! Obviously it is chaos & confusion and an excuse for our inefficiency. As long as we can suffer it, let the elephant meander away.
The youg are same everywhere. China has taken a modern approach, though ruthless against those who act against their interests! But many who stay there hardly find anything stifling and yearn that we can do with some of their focus on achieving results.
We are our own worst enemy though it can be a high sress reliever & sress builder, depends on the person & issues involved. By allowing the status quo, we think we can avoid mistakes, but when we look at others, we also feel we regress. We live in supposed past glory.
Our political masters should work on a common agenda, with a total transparent system so that we give hope to the future generation to have stakes in the motherland. Now the educated still look to foreign pastures as they feel out of place in a culture of blaming everybody else for our state of affairs & feeling good about it!
City is build by the people who display decent behaviour publicly. like cause traffic jam, block foot path. No collective effort to make inrasturctur better. When tourist look at it. they assume that india is 3rd world, people are self centred, dont care about development as soceity, nation. This is major reason why foreigner go back with negative image of indian city. Only good news is our business managers are acting intelligently, they are conquering the material world, which is creating more jobs for indian, growth of nation. Yet, i think there should be training by pvt company to people living in city on civic issues like discipline on traffic, clean foot path etc. Then only our city can look like sanghai.
RE:Its educated People's job to make city beautiful, govt has neither time nor comitment for this.
by satyarthi on Apr 04, 2008 12:35 AM Permalink
In a developing country like India, having seen 1000 years of dark age, no devloped area (read cities) can remain clean. As it attracts income hungry population from every part of the country, it is a challenge for civic authorities to maintain basic amenities.
Shanghai was built by the tyranny RED, It was built on peoples blood and curse like the Great Wall of China. The communist will show their muscle power on poor people. Nandigram is a good example in India's case.
India cannot drive away poor people like China. So we should never compare China and India. It is so stupid to compare Communism and Democracy.
ALL DEMOCRACIES IN THE WORLD MUST BOYCOTT CHINA OLYMPICS.
RE:RE:Why to compare?
by David Dak on Apr 07, 2008 08:54 AM Permalink
Chinese Govts or Shanghai govts did not drive poor people out but supply them with accommodations. They distroyed old slum shelters but build high rise buildings that occupy less land. In such way, a lot of Chinese families can live in the modern buildings. It is nothing to do with democrasy or not it has everything to do with planning and execution of the plans. Indian and your govts are lack of such planning and actions. Actually India's democracy is a failed one because India still has most disgusting caste system in the world. You really do not have any idea that how Chinese are happy with their govts. If you can read Chinese, go to their websites, see what they think China and India, one is in haven and one is in the hell.
