A few centuries ago... India was under Mughal rule. Castiesm was rampant. If the mansoon was bad people starved to death. Healthcare was pathetic, infant mortality rate was quite high. There was no TV, book or newspaper to make people connected or entertained. Most Indians were not allowed to get education. There were no roads. There was no railway or post office. People rode in bullock carts. There was no running water. There was no electricity. People had only a few dishes to eat and cook. People had only few cloths to wash, wear and sleep on.
RE:A few centuries ago...
by anup sharma on May 22, 2007 11:10 PM Permalink
Kumar everything is relative. When author says that India was Bird of Gold a few centuries ago then it is not just an simple exaggeration. You know when Industrial Revolution was in its prime in late eighteenth century, India and China with out any of the fruits of Industrial Revolution together had a share of more than 50% in world trade with India herself cornering around 28% of that alone. Today this position is not even held by US of A. So you can easily imagine India's economic status in those days. If we talk about Per Capita Income then a country's mega cities is the best parameter to judge that. You will find innumerable accounts by first of the westerners when they arrived in India about how Calcutta was better than Paris or London of that time. Understood that income spread was not uniform but when you compare it with other Western nations of that time, India's situation was lot better than theirs. Just to end with a statement and this is no exaggeration (supported by BBC only), there was a time when rich is England were identified as ones who used to have tea in bone-china wares and used to wear good quality cotton.
"It is like a story. A few centuries ago India was the world's wealthiest nation. There was no poverty, plenty to eat, trade was booming... riches abounded. Fittingly, it was called the "golden bird" by the rest of the world."
i doubt this statement .... this is called "romantization of past" ...
RE:fallacy ....
by anup sharma on May 22, 2007 11:10 PM Permalink
Kalyan everything is relative. When author says that India was Bird of Gold a few centuries ago then it is not just an simple exaggeration. You know when Industrial Revolution was in its prime in late eighteenth century, India and China with out any of the fruits of Industrial Revolution together had a share of more than 50% in world trade with India herself cornering around 28% of that alone. Today this position is not even held by US of A. So you can easily imagine India's economic status in those days. If we talk about Per Capita Income then a country's mega cities is the best parameter to judge that. You will find innumerable accounts by first of the westerners when they arrived in India about how Calcutta was better than Paris or London of that time. Understood that income spread was not uniform but when you compare it with other Western nations of that time, India's situation was lot better than theirs. Just to end with a statement and this is no exaggeration (supported by BBC only), there was a time when rich is England were identified as ones who used to have tea in bone-china wares and used to wear good quality cotton.
I am sure many of you might have already addressed this in the previous comments-which I haven't read so I am going to reiterate again about the ignotance of the writer. Meenakshi Radhakrishnan-Swami mentions in the first line that a few centuries ago Indians were rich, had bundant food and no worries. I can't believe an Indian would write that. Meenakshi, this is common knowledge that only the kings' household had all the money while the others were there to serve him and his lands. Haven't we all seen countless stories on those subjects on TV? Although this is irrelevant, but I have seen this kind of ignorance only in non-asian(READ:America) countries where people have asked me stupid questions like" are there stray cows on the street" "do kids stay with their parents after getting married" For god's sake YES!!! what kind of hole do these people live in?
RE:''indian history 101'' anyone?
by anup sharma on May 22, 2007 11:07 PM Permalink
Naina everything is relative. When author says that India was Bird of Gold a few centuries ago then it is not just an simple exaggeration. You know when Industrial Revolution was in its prime in late eighteenth century, India and China with out any of the fruits of Industrial Revolution together had a share of more than 50% in world trade with India herself cornering around 28% of that alone. Today this position is not even held by US of A. So you can easily imagine India's economic status in those days. If we talk about Per Capita Income then a country's mega cities is the best parameter to judge that. You will find innumerable accounts by first of the westerners when they arrived in India about how Calcutta was better than Paris or London of that time. Understood that income spread was not uniform but when you compare it with other Western nations of that time, India's situation was lot better than theirs. Just to end with a statement and this is no exaggeration (supported by BBC only), there was a time when rich is England were identified as ones who used to have tea in bone-china wares and used to wear good quality cotton.
RE:''indian history 101'' anyone?
by ravi kumar on May 22, 2007 04:09 PM Permalink
naina by acting oversmart you are not able to prove uor point. The author talks about gdp and not about the income distribution. and rajah maharajah may be super rich but there not tyranniccal rule you should understand that. if you see todays siotuation and try to intrapolate that 500-600 years back you might not get the complete picture because last few centuries indians have been slaves and very little progress. ya we do stay with their parents because we have rich cultural ethos doesn't mean that indians do have healthy sex life and some westerners are just ignorant. So nothing to get embarassed about. those people who ask such Q's shud firstly know that a basic function like sex also they had to be told by indians, leave spectrum of philosophy which has contributed to all major religions dominant today in the world. So just try looking at some good things and hope is infective believe me.
RE:''indian history 101'' anyone?
by naina kaur on May 23, 2007 08:13 AM Permalink
Ravi, by calling me oversmart just because I gave my opinion, you have proved you under-intelligence. But, you are right though. I am oversmart, smarter than you!
RE:''indian history 101'' anyone?
by dev dath on May 22, 2007 05:55 PM Permalink
which world u live ravi
what naina said is correct. the kings n theruling class had the money and when mckinsky talk about gdp and ndp and per cap income the averages dont matter
the average pci of uae , saudi, america is very high but do u think all get minimum that amt no mckinsky gives a rosy picture and makes people feel good about it because has to serve the masters when u bring out a feel good positive report the people get rubbed off with the positive aspect and they go invest in stock market, flats, land and when thereis a down turn the funds will take their money but leave the losses to the public
so we dont need a prediction from mckinsky , it is like astrology/palmistry we need a govt which is clear in its vision to set goals and make aaction plan and implement it
otherwise in 2025 we will have the same mess
what we have now
singapore, hongkong did not get mckinsky report done and after 20 years they didi not become what hey are today
RE:golden bird will fly again
by ravi kumar on May 22, 2007 04:11 PM Permalink
u communist, keep these ideals to yourself. Nobody is a vampire here. I think everybody gains due to these capitalists. Should not they grow more because they were the initiators. you should be dishonest to say something like that.
RE:golden bird will fly again
by blue wrox on May 23, 2007 12:15 AM Permalink
Do kadam aage rakhenge tho bokene lagenge yeh bolke ki cheenti mar jaayegi.Now if the minstry is spineless ek kadam peeche rakenge.Thats the sad state of our affair.Bokne waale george jaise karodon hai,tho kya karen
The more golden the bird becomes less bolden we become. Whatever increase will be drained in defence and very little left for development. The developed countries will see to that our security is constantly threatened. The purchasing power of money will remain same. Consider less threatened countries like UK where you can get petrol for 96P, good coarse of meals for 8pounds etc..With 2000 pounds salary you can lead a decent life. But we have to pay 50Rs for petrol. They are full fledged nuclear power. Like that we also should be equipped with nuclear weapons and after that stop spending on defence. The defence budget of 65000 crore or so can be spent on development of all the facilities which is being discussed in this topic.
Oh this is crap. The way to glory is to recognize weakness and not live in fools paradise.
India like any other part was VERY poor. Economic disparity was the order of the day. Before we answer "whether India was rich" lets answer - WHO was india?" The kings and queens only? The rich dynasties only OR everyone? Did we not have the tribes? The Gonds, the santhals, The baigas, the Bodos, The Khasis, The Paintias, Ahirs, gujjars? Were they all rich?
Remember, the history does not talk of common people. It talks of only kings. Even then The Ramayana had a Shabri, did it not?
Lets have data before we speak. It is true we had immense wealth. The doab was as fertile as Tigris banks or Nile Delta, we had precious stones and we were prolific traders. But this wealth did not get distributed evenly. Reasons being our caste system created artificial barriers. Also, our financial market were weak. We did not have stock exchange or wider ownerships. Business was always family driven. Any economics student will explain you what a Hindu growth rate is. Europe had Stock exchanges, Venture capital and bonds in 1500s. We did not. That meant poor wealth distribution.
Although some studies have shown 25% of world GDP (and some other have disputed it) please know that it was nothing significant!!! Understand from historic perspective.
There was no North America, no South America, No oil (middle east) and Africa was dark. So 25% figure practically means 1/4 of Europe China india indo-china. Not bad but nothing great. And remember, those days only wealth was farm products and Precious metal, both a gift of nature, nothing ingenious (farm tools were invented 8000 yrs ago). Once industrial revolution came, Europeans made slaves out of us.
Look I am a proud Indian. But these misleading articles do no good for our development and make us lazy - like our cricket team - which everybody feels is greatest - but no data points to that.
Max. international companies are done MOU with Orissa Govt. Orissa is going to be no.1 state in India because of the Company. Like POSCO, JINDAL, VEDANT, MITTAL, BHUSAN many more.
RE:Golden Bird fly from Orissa
by george yacobu on May 22, 2007 11:13 AM Permalink
DEAR FRIEND IT IS THE ONLY BACKWARD STATE IN THIS COUNTRY. DONT DREAM IT WILL FLY HIGH UNLESS THE PEOPLES ATTITUDE CHANGES. IT IS A CURSED LAND BECAUSE YOU KILL PEOPLE WHO HELP YOU TO GROW.
RE:RE:Golden Bird fly from Orissa
by saket kumar on May 22, 2007 11:29 AM Permalink
Let them help people without changing their culture and religion. In the name of help, they hurt some section of self-respected person and their anger kills so called gentleman. That does not mean we will not achieve target. Shame on you.
RE:Golden Bird fly from Orissa
by arun on May 22, 2007 12:11 PM Permalink
Orissa is better than Your state (i don't know) in crime. Not like Bihar and U.P. where currupted leader are doing rule. Come orissa and the see the administration. How the C.M. and how the Govt. and how the city. You r right that this is the land of Cursed. This is due to the weak politician who ruled before 10 years back in Orissa (Cong. Govt.). A day will come you come orissa and start your occupation from here.
RE:Golden Bird fly from Orissa
by arun on May 22, 2007 12:06 PM Permalink
Dear Friend I am not Oriya. But know their feelings. I think you r a great idiot who don't know the meaning respect. It will too difficult to get a crime in Orissa. But....... I think muslim can teach you better
RE:RE:Golden Bird fly from Orissa
by arun on May 22, 2007 11:16 AM Permalink
U'r right. But backward only in pen and Paper not in real. You come and see what's the people are.
Every city's pollution level is increasing day by day. Green Cover (Tree etc) is vanishing. Roadside trees are cut by slum dwellars and we cannot walk on pavements. You have to walk on road and anytime Bus (Govt Bus) may hit you. Pavements are encroached by hawkers. They earn in lakhs daily but never pay a penny as tax. 50% Tax can be collected from there. For Fin ministry, tax is for salaried class. If you work hard, Govt will hit with same hard hummer. Your CTC may increase but take home and saving will decrease. What short of law we have in our country, where only middle class (which is backbone) is hit hardest. This is tale of a middle class worker who cannot Live or Leave this world.
I being a conservative, we should also keep in mind that this prediction for next 2 decades is taken from past 1yr of indian economy. BUBBLES always and has to burst.
Because of this boom, there are many unhealthy growth. Real Estate is simply zooming in pricing. In the name of demand in jobs, education quality is going down (I bet in AP,TN,KAR and MH B.E.degree is not of that standard which was a decade back)and mind it, not all sectors are booming, many sectors are left behind like local industries and small scale factories. lower middle income group and lower income group are stagnent in their prosperity.
All said, being an Indian, I wish what have been said by the author to come true without any hurdle.
