ONE MORE THOUGHT- if indians have 200% braisn and if India has got the best entrepreneurs. Then why is india one of the poorest nations in the world?? Then why did get invaded by british? If wright brothers good take the human race to sky? what were the entrepreneurs in india doing?
RE:the big question
by jagmohan swain on Apr 02, 2007 12:34 AM Permalink
Invention is a tricky thing that's more an offshoot of persistent endeavor than an outcome of planned effort.No one had in the past nor in future would predict that he would invent something.The very definition of invention means something new that no one had any prior knowledge of.Albert Einstein once remarked that If we knew what we were doing it wouldn't be research.All the creations that weren't extant at the beginning of civilization is invention else it would be termed discovery not invention.So cultivation was an invention as was scripts.A certain form of dance was an invention as was a musical instrument.Money was an invention and so was stocks, bonds.We tend to appreciate the inventions which are more current and underrate the one that's already part of our culture.So why would an invention of flying be more important than invention of chariot.Since all invention has same value, let's dig deep in history and find out who invented what.You know how futile an exercise that would be.Let's challenge Americans to stop using all inventions made before them and use only the ones made by them.Will they take that offer? Let's ask them to charge royalty for all inventions made by them in 20th century but pay the rest of the world for the inventions made prior to 20th century.Who would be richer? Were the 20th century inventions been even possible without the inventions that gone before it? How come we didn't invent aeroplane in stone ages instead of 20th cenury.Why a certain British guy discovered Laws of Graviation in 16th century instead of let's say 5000 years before.Is it because the invention of multiplication and division ( Indian origin ) came only sometime in 5th century and algebra ( Arabian ) few centuries after that.Newton said I could look forward because I stood upon the shoulder of giants ( Gallileo among one ).Same can be said about any new invention.It happened because it is built upon a prior invention which unfortunately isn't an invention any more. It's a fact, it's a knowhow.It's part of human knowledge.In due time every invention made in the world will be part of human knowledge and hence lose it's significance.Histroy doesn't stop being written at the 20th century.Mankind will survive and new civilizations, great countries will emerge in due time that will lead in spheres of science, art and everything and more importantly in human pursuit of relentless advancement in knowledge.What we can ill-afford as human being is to consider ourselves so superior as to cut ourselves off the rest of the world so as to not paprticipate in this grand juggernaut of knowledge advancement.It doesn't matter whether it's one individual or a group or a culture or a great empire the moment one closes the eyes to the rest of the world in hubris stagnation and inevitable degradation follows.History stands witness to this.
RE:the big question
by Ravi K on Mar 26, 2007 08:23 AM Permalink
Mr Ram, India has made significant progress in Nuclear fuels even western scientists have acknowledged it. I am not saying indians are superior to others. But do you put your own country down it is no good for yourself or your neighbours.
RE:the big question
by ram on Mar 26, 2007 08:28 AM Permalink
:-)). Yep - You are 100% right Ravi. I drifted from what I wanted to say. I say the same thing as you- Just that some indians think they are a 200 pound brain mass This is my point ravi- Jai Hind ALL OF LIFE IS ELEMENTAL- THE HUMAN ELEMENT- NOTHING MORE ELEMENTAL-NOTHING MORE FUNDAMENTAL
RE:the big question
by Ravi K on Mar 26, 2007 08:18 AM Permalink
Mr. Ram have you forgotten Ayurveda and yoga originated from India? A lot of colleagues who are from various countries are practising Yoga. And Ayurveda - there are lot of people around the world who have faith in and are using ayurvedic medicines. Check it out in germany. You asked why britishers invaded India in our of your posting. Do you think Invading a country is game of intellignet people? Even Arabs invaded several countries they had no brian. The bottom line is Indians in US are contributing as lot because the opportunities they have. In India our political system and corruption is pulling us back. Even now india is able to build own rockets and launch our own satelites. The best thing you can do is to rediscover India in a positive way. Do not hae your own country that is no good for you or your neighbors.
RE:[object]
by Ravi K on Mar 26, 2007 08:28 AM Permalink
how many countries have made jet engines? and there are how many countries in this world? And how many countries know even to use a jet engine.
I think you are filled with hatred - no one can help you my friend!
RE:[object MouseEvent]
by Maximus Decimus Meridius on Mar 26, 2007 09:46 AM Permalink
Ravi K, Have you heard of Embraer? It is the largest small jet manufacturer in the world (less than 100 passangers). Right from executive jets to small passenger planes. It is a Brazilian company (gasp!). A third world country, no better no worse than India.
As to which country makes jet engines, China does. Russia does. France and Germany do, so to the british. And of course, USA does. I believe the Sweedes (Saab Gripen/Volvo) do. I dont know if Embraer does, I think not, but in any case, India definately doesnt. And that's a concern, because it means we can never build an indegenous fighter plane.
Human brain gets new knowledge thru progressive elaboration process. Today whatever you know from one angle tomorrow you might know more about it thru regular elaboration. Ram, Indian science was much more modern than western science. Our Rishi and Maharshi were actual scientists. You name Wright brothers about inventors of airplane. If you have studied Ramayan, then you must be aware of %u201CPushpak Viman%u201D, it was nothing but airplane. Whatever your million/billion dollar Hubble telescope is doing today the same results were given by Arybhatt long time ago. You are one of those people who need western certification for every thing.
Ram, do you really want to know that why and how Britishers were able to rule on us? It%u2019s because of people like you. Ram, in Hindu religion we were taught to pray Shaastra (Books) and Shustr (Use of War instruments) both. Buddhism spoiled the whole concept of it by saying %u201CAhimsa Permo Dharma%u201D. Our Ved, Upnishad and all are Ocean of knowledge and you are just swimming in a dirty pond of Western Science. Grow up kid. Go and study more on Ved, Upnishad, and Ashtang Yog etc%u2026 and then comment on it.
RE:the big question
by ram on Mar 26, 2007 09:16 AM Permalink
Nice to see an indian who is proud of india. My favourite god is Ram. Wish he gives me everything I need after die. May be a nice twin engine Cessna :-)). If god can spend one milli second of his valuable time and say that he would give me what i want, then i would read veda for every milli second of life all thru my life. Not I cant read any other thing other than published american books, or else i will loose my jon. Lemme see what after death. Is it veda?
RE:[object MouseEvent]
by Maximus Decimus Meridius on Mar 26, 2007 10:02 AM Permalink
Wow... Allahabadi, you are some piece of work. Pushpak Viman as the proof of flying vehicles? What is the evidence that the Ramayana is a historical document? None. Just becuse we hindus believe in it does not make it a historical document. The mahabharata, written after ramayana has no reference to pushpak viman. If Ravan had the technology, why didnt anyone else use it after him? Sorry, by that standard, Jesus invented the cure for leprosy and other (then) life threatening ailments. He was also the first to turn water into wine and walk on water, both feats hitherto unreplicated. Sorry mate, pushpak viman as evidence is like saying India invented the nuclear weapon in the form of Brahmastra. Greek mythology has a story of Icarus whose father makes fake wings by gluing feathers to his arms so that he could fly. These are all stories in morality, and must be treated as such, barring evidence to the contrary.
Aryabhatta made great contributions to astronomy, but hubble telescope is going much further. Aryabhatta calculated the diameter of the moon to great accuracy. However, hubble telescope studies heavenly bodies that are invisible to the human eye - (radio and microwave telescope).
Read the upanishadas and vedas to know your culture. Also read modern science, because it goes way beyond what's in the vedas.
PS: It is veda (the last 'a' pronounced as uh and not aa. Hindi has it as ved, sanskrit has it as ved-uh. The uh pronouned as the first alphabet in devanagiri. Veda is a masculine noun ending in 'uh' declining as ram-uh / dev-uh. Maybe if you studied any sanskrit, you would have known that)
RE:[object MouseEvent]
by Maximus Decimus Meridius on Mar 26, 2007 10:06 AM Permalink
PS: Maybe I should have written the schwa sound (uh) as (ah). I figured some people might think I meant ooh. Damn, it is hard to write phonetically in English!
RE:the big question
by Gaurav Taneja on Apr 02, 2007 12:06 PM Permalink
Einstein in his autobiography, acknowledged India as the inventor of not only "Zero" but all Mathematics. Now, whosoever you may be, that bloke's one comment holds more weight than your Euro-centric discourse; enslaved mind.
RE:the big question
by babji v on Mar 26, 2007 07:44 AM Permalink
SO You agree that you don't have a Brain???? Indian is not one of the poorest nation man wakeup.Type in wikepedia "Superpower". Second fastest growing economy in the world. Be proud,if not keep quiet and learn facts
RE:the big question
by ram on Mar 26, 2007 07:59 AM Permalink
what about wright brothers? Why were the first people to fly? Why was newton the first person to understand how apple falls down? who own hubble? how sent the rovers to mars? who is working on 'String theory' the most advanced theory which streches the limits of human understanding?
RE:the big question
by ram on Mar 26, 2007 08:14 AM Permalink
lemme know if veda can land man on mars? NASA may need to re-check the Vedas for the one and half year manned journey to mars
RE:[object]
by ram on Mar 26, 2007 08:20 AM Permalink
modern astronmy started primarly by newtwon equations of gravity. Did Newton read Veda. Listen science is not philosophy.
RE:the big question
by Tarun Arora on Mar 26, 2007 08:11 AM Permalink
Why are you being so rude to this guy? He is expressing himself let him do so. Be patient and it would be appropriate if you could watch the kind of language you are using. N please no need to blast me off now!
RE:the big question
by Maximus Decimus Meridius on Mar 26, 2007 09:37 AM Permalink
sorry, Abir Mandal... a few mistakes. Pi: Yes, but apart from India, the CHinese, babylonians etc also had computed values of pi. The most accurate value moved from one nation to another... Just because the vedas mention gravitational force doesnt mean anything. Any idiot can say that things are attacted to the ground. The work of Keppler, Newton etc was to quantify this into a mathematical relation.
INDIANS DID NOT INVENT ZERO. People dont even know what they are talking about. Zero as a place holder was known to Chinese, Babylonians and even the Mayans. What the mathematitians of the Gupta period did was develop the mathematical theory of zero, numbers below zero and operations with zero (add,sub, mul and divide).
Heliocentric theory of the universe was known in Europe too. It was one of the greek philosophers (Aristotle, Plato, somebody) who proposed the geocentric theory and because they were so influential, it became "common knowledge" and was entrenched in the Bible. Before that, it was heliocentric, a belief shared in other parts of Asia (Arabs, Persians etc).
There is no denying that Indian mathematitians and scientists, especially in the Gupta era contributed to the sciences. There is also no denying that since then we have contributed little. Unless we learn to accept the truth, there can be no progress. Get your head out of the clouds and see the truth. Independent India has produced no nobel prize winner in the sciences or arts. The last nobel prize winner of Indian origin was Chandrasekhar Subramanium and he was educated in British India and was a tenured faculty at a US university. So much so that the americans named one of their space shuttles after him (Chandra)
Tell me one thing which was invented by an Indian. Electricty? heat energy, light energy, electrical? nuclear. I only see non indian names like maxwell, newton, bhor,dalton..in my high school CBSE science and math textboooks Certainly lookforward to seeing some indian theory like may be-GABBAR SINGS STRING THEORY, may unfication of electrical, gravity, magnetic and nuclear by govidaswamy iyer.
RE:my science text book
by raghavan on Mar 26, 2007 11:44 AM Permalink
Dear Friend all the things u mention like gravity, electricity etc existed before and they were only rediscovered by the likes of Newton and Co. Mother Nature would be truly haphazard if She has to wait for the approval of scientists before Her laws can operate. Werner Von Braun got his idea for V2 rocket from Tipu Sultan's campaign. Much of the scince of Astras and Shastras have been lost over the last 7-8 centuries....weapons that could make modern Hydrogen bombs look like pea-shooters. There is a scince called Vaimanika Shastra which exists as an addendum to the Vedas and which describes methods of flying...As for the historicity of the Ramayana, The bridge still exists between Rameshwaram and Lanka...coming to that, one could even question the existence of Jesus Christ/ buddha / the prophet mohammed. But just because we havent seen them directly doesnt mean they didnt exist. The reasons why Indians dont achieve muchh these days is that we have as a race lost our culture and values. We have no value for discipline, hard work and truthfullness. The martial arts were taken from Kerala and introduced as Kung fu in Shaolin by Bodhidharma...The Indian Panchanga still defies western minds by the accuracy with which it has been cast...milleniums before the first rudimentary telescopes were invented...One of the most important reasons why India still languishes is that most of us are jealous of each other and try to put down another Indian instead of supporting him/her. Munna bhai encapsulates this beautifully when he says 'Desh apna ho gaya par Log paraye'. We shamelessly lie and cheat in everything from exams , marksheets to resumes. We spend our time watching FTV instead of working on something worthwhile. Where then will the next Nobel prize come from? Where is our work ethic? Guys if you really feel that way about India, stop blaming the Tendulkars and dravids for defeat in cricket...stop blaming politicians for the political morrass. ...stop blaming the DRDO scientists for not making Jet engines... Do it yourself! Start with yourself...ask yourself day by day What you have achieved...afterall the nation is composed of you me and the next man / woman...Charity starts at home... Guys...Instead of silly arguments, Arise, awake and stop not till your exalted goals are reached! Jai Hind
RE:my science text book
by ram on Apr 07, 2007 01:45 AM Permalink
Yea I love India, but its the race, god and myth that kills me. I dont understand whats race and culture todo with science and jet engines. dont forget that we all human beings. there is nothing great about indian or any other culture.
RE:my science text book
by on Apr 07, 2007 02:57 AM Permalink
1. Race, God and Myth exist in every country. 2. India with all its diversity and still a young nation(only 50 yrs of independence) has progressed a lot. 3. There is no developed country that is younger that India and has acheivied what India did in such a less time.
RE:my science text book
by PAVANKUMAR MADALA on Apr 30, 2007 05:19 PM Permalink
Mr Raghavan.can i have ur email id please. I am Pavan working in bangalore. Just need some information from u. mail me at pavankumarmadala@rediffmail.com pavan_kumar_madala@yahoo.co.in
RE:my science text book
by jugnu Chemmannur on Mar 26, 2007 07:51 AM Permalink
well, seems like you have to read more, dig a little more deeper, to find indian names in science. if you find reading too boring, just check wikipedia....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_mathematicians gives a small list of prominent indian mathematicians. we knew earth to be round and the helio-centric theory a millennium before europe even came to think about it.susruta was doing cosmetic surgery in 6th century BC in India. the numerals the world uses now, the "indo-arabic numerals" originated in india. i could go on and on, but i will let others to add to the list. all nations have periods of greatness and depths of darkness in their history. we had our share of glory too. and then came the ebb. i guess we are now at the point of re-emergence. jai hind!!!
RE:[object]
by ram on Mar 26, 2007 08:11 AM Permalink
Yea- India may develop- A natural process of mutation and evolution. I still breathe the toxic air when i venture out in the streets of my city, but i am a mutant to carcenogens. There is nothing to brag about it. Jai Hindh, let the people live happy with all humility. Please dont look into a mirror and self admire
RE:RE:my science text book
by ram on Mar 26, 2007 08:01 AM Permalink
what about wright brothers? Why were they first to fly? Why was newton the first person to understand how apple falls down? who own hubble? how sent the rovers to mars? who is working on 'String theory' the most advanced theory which streches the limits of human understanding?
RE:my science text book
by jagmohan swain on Apr 02, 2007 12:26 AM Permalink
Invention is a tricky thing that's more an offshoot of persistent endeavor than an outcome of planned effort. No one had in the past nor in future would predict that he would invent something. The very definition of invention means something new that no one had any prior knowledge of. Albert Einstein once remarked that If we knew what we were doing it wouldn't be research. All the creations that weren't extant at the beginning of civilization is invention else it would be termed discovery not invention.So cultivation was an invention as was scripts.A certain form of dance was an invention as was a musical instrument.Money was an invention and so was stocks, bonds.We tend to appreciate the inventions which are more current and underrate the one that's already part of our culture.So why would an invention of flying be more important than invention of chariot.Since all invention has same value, let's dig deep in history and find out who invented what. You know how futile an exercise that would be.Let's challenge Americans to stop using all inventions made before them and use only the ones made by them.Will they take that offer? Let's ask them to charge royalty for all inventions made by them in 20th century but pay the rest of the world for the inventions made prior to 20th century.Who would be richer? Were the 20th century inventions been even possible without the inventions that gone before it? How come we didn't invent aeroplane in stone ages instead of 20th cenury.Why a certain British guy discovered Laws of Graviation in 16th century instead of let's say 5000 years before.Is it because the invention of multiplication and division ( Indian origin ) came only sometime in 5th century and algebra ( Arabian ) few centuries after that.Newton said I could look forward because I stood upon the shoulder of giants ( Gallileo among one ).Same can be said about any new invention.It happened because it is built upon a prior invention which unfortunately isn't an invention any more. It's a fact, it's a knowhow.It's part of human knowledge.In due time every invention made in the world will be part of human knowledge and hence lose it's significance.Histroy doesn't stop being written at the 20th century.Mankind will survive and new civilizations, great countries will emerge in due time that will lead in spheres of science, art and everything and more importantly in human pursuit of relentless advancement in knowledge.What we can ill-afford as human being is to consider ourselves so superior as to cut ourselves off the rest of the world so as to not paprticipate in this grand juggernaut of knowledge advancement.It doesn't matter whether it's one individual or a group or a culture or a great empire the moment one closes the eyes to the rest of the world in hubris stagnation and inevitable degradation follows. History stands witness to this.
Tell me one thing which was invented by an India. Electricty? heat energy, light energy, electrical? nuclear. I see non indian names like maxwell, newton, bhor,daton.. stop boasting..be a bit humble..
RE:stop bragging
by Sanjay Rao on Mar 26, 2007 08:05 AM Permalink
When there were no fear of wars and invasions, science in India always excelled. Unfortunately for most part India was constantly threatened and no one big empire ruled for long. On the contrary, all those scientists you are mentioning recieved royal patronage as they could afford. We are second to none.
RE:stop bragging
by Maximus Decimus Meridius on Mar 26, 2007 09:06 AM Permalink
Bohr did his atomic theory work in the 1900 (1912, I think). Maxwell, 1885 or so. Newton, around 1600. Europe was a democracy during Maxwell and Bohr's time and Newton lived in democratic england (though the monarchy had a few more powers than now). There was more "royal patronage" then than there is now - states fund research activity now too. Most of India's nobel prize winners are from the British era - Tagore, Raman, Hargobind Khorana (tecnically 1962, but his education was in British India, and then to the US). Even Chandrasekhar Subramaniam may have been educated during the British Era.
Maybe India messed up our education system. In any case, our rhetoric of being second to none is hardly reflected in our recent contributions to science. Everytime, people hark back to the golden age of the Gupta dynasty when Aryabhatta, Sushruta, et al lived and contributed to math and medicine. Sure, that's all fine, but what did we do recently? Be proud of what you were, but also be aware of what you are. Because without that knowledge, there can be no progress
RE:[object MouseEvent]
by Maximus Decimus Meridius on Mar 26, 2007 09:07 AM Permalink
Typo... I meant there was no more royal patronage then than there is now...
I do not understand what is so big to be pride about Indian community in the US or any other country for that matter. You are trying to portray as if Indians are the only people started business in the US and become successful. US is the country of everyone. People are there from almost all countries. More over, US was already a developed country. I do not think Indians have done anything great that others have not done. Most of the Indians are working as cyber coolies. The fact is that it is easy to start a business and become successful in the US. But it is very difficult to become successful in India.
In the 21st century, we still follow pathetic caste system, female infanticide is prevalent everywhere and dowry as well. Let us eradicate these evils first, and then we can talk about our so called pride. Even after working abroad so many years, NRI still follow the pathetic caste system and regionalism in the name of so called culture as in India. They refuse to integrate with main stream and live in isolation. Many people desperately plan such a way that their kids will born in the US so that they will become US citizen. What happened to their patriotism???
RE:What happened to their patriotism???
by Full2njoy on Mar 26, 2007 06:38 AM Permalink
Patriotism is "free loaders" like the ones mentioned above who dont study, dont have jobs, feed off their parents money and are basically losers in life.
But find it difficult to accept that there are people who are in many ways superior to them. It is then that they keep abusing people for making their mark in other parts of the world.
RE:What happened to their patriotism???
by Maximus Decimus Meridius on Mar 26, 2007 09:21 AM Permalink
What is wrong in someone wanting a better life? Like you said, it is easy to start a business in the US and hard in India. So, why would anyone in their sane mind want to start a business in India? If India wants to retain talent, it has to make efforts to do so. Patriotism is all very nice but doesnt fulfill people's ambitions or aspirations. They did what you couldnt do - create jobs in the country of their adoption and contribute to the GDP of this already rich nation. It's no coincedence, by the way. They are rich because they allow people like these to set up businesses with minimum headache.
I dont know where you get your information, but most Indians integrate well in the US because they are all educated. This may be a problem in Canada where the standards are lower, there is no isolationism. Karan Johar's crappy films notwithstanding.
What have you done recently for your country that gives you the right to impune the patriotism of others? The fact that you didnt leave India? Remember that, to a large extent, India's new found frendship with the US is because of intensive lobbying by these people you call unpatriotic.
RE:What happened to their patriotism???
by Anurag Jain on Mar 26, 2007 07:07 AM Permalink
Patriotism is just not being in India and fighting with your neighbors.. it reflects in many other ways as well.. being in US or in hakunamatata does not mean that you can not be patriotic.. I suppose we must appreciate that even being in US for 20 years, he still proudly says I am INDIAN.. lets not talk about the mindless materialistic people who surely does not know what patriotism is.. for that matter many people sitting in India are not patriotic!!
RE:incorrect link
by hello on Mar 26, 2007 06:04 AM Permalink
I came to a link which says like how to loot Africa & build wealth!!! But it talks nothing about that!!!
I do not understand what is so big to be pride about Indian community in the US or any other country for that matter. You are trying to portray as if Indians are the only people started business in the US and become successful. US is the country of everyone. People are there from almost all countries. More over, US was already a developed country. I do not think Indians have done anything great that others have not done. Most of the Indians are working as cyber coolies. The fact is that it is easy to start a business and become successful in the US. But it is very difficult to become successful in India.
In the 21st century, we still follow pathetic caste system, female infanticide is prevalent everywhere and dowry as well. Let us eradicate these evils first, and then we can talk about our so called pride. I agree with your views. Even after working abroad so many years, NRI still follow the pathetic caste system and regionalism in the name of so called culture as in India. They refuse to integrate with main stream and live in isolation. Many people desperately plan such a way that their kinds will born in the US so that they will become US citizen. What happened to their so called patriotism???
RE:Self boosting crap article
by Full2njoy on Mar 26, 2007 06:37 AM Permalink
Patriotism is "free loaders" like the ones mentioned above who dont study, dont have jobs, feed off their parents money and are basically losers in life.
But find it difficult to accept that there are people who are in many ways superior to them. It is then that they keep abusing people for making their mark in other parts of the world.
RE:Self boosting crap article
by hello on Mar 26, 2007 04:00 AM Permalink
However, we praise only the people who are successful as Indians, other people why do we care, as their people will take care of thatz!!!
I do not understand what is so big to be pride about Indian community in the US or any other country for that matter. You are trying to portray as if Indians are the only people started business in the US and become successful. US is the country of everyone. People are there from almost all countries. More over, US was already a developed country. I do not think Indians have done anything great that others have not done. Most of the Indians are working as cyber coolies. The fact is that it is easy to start a business and become successful in the US. But it is very difficult to become successful in India.
In the 21st century, we still follow pathetic caste system, female infanticide is prevalent everywhere and dowry as well. Let us eradicate these evils first, and then we can talk about our so called pride. I agree with your views. Even after working abroad so many years, NRI still follow the pathetic caste system and regionalism in the name of so called culture as in India. They refuse to integrate with main stream and live in isolation. Many people desperately plan such a way that their kinds will born in the US so that they will become US citizen. What happened to their so called patriotism???
I do not understand what is so big to be pride about Indian community in the US or any other country for that matter. You are trying to portray as if Indians are the only people started business in the US and become successful. US is the country of everyone. People are there from almost all countries. More over, US was already a developed country. I do not think Indians have done anything great that others have not done. Most of the Indians are working as cyber coolies. The fact is that it is easy to start a business and become successful in the US. But it is very difficult to become successful in India.
In the 21st century, we still follow pathetic caste system, female infanticide is prevalent everywhere and dowry as well. Let us eradicate these evils first, and then we can talk about our so called pride. Even after working abroad so many years, NRI still follow the pathetic caste system and regionalism in the name of so called culture as in India. They refuse to integrate with main stream and live in isolation.
also quality of life in usa is high so everything feels easier.there is less burden on school children here.no pollution , no corruption ,....so you get confidence that you could do anything here.While in india people get disappointed.
