the increase in GDP is mainly due to multinational companies investment, but not due to any indian's contrubution. This is just like, when the british came and developed our country in a modern way. Now probably US is taking charge. Shame to Indians
RE:slavery at ones own place
by Karthic Kumar on Jun 20, 2007 08:07 AM Permalink
If your US MNC does not belive indians and their capability of productivity why the hell they are investing in india?? you must feel ashame yourself to criticise indians being an indian...
RE:slavery at ones own place
by ASHOK on Jun 20, 2007 10:20 AM Permalink
Vasudev 1)Indian companies are investing abroad in a big way. 2) Investment by Indian private sector within India is far more than US MNC or any other foreign MNC.
RE:RE:slavery at ones own place
by Ajay on Jun 21, 2007 07:47 PM Permalink
True Indian companies are investing overseas, but the money is raised overseas. These overseas companies have thier marker overseas and they make money overseas.
Besides 75% of all new funds injected into indian equity (stock) market is comming from overseas.
Reason stock has gone up from 4500 to 14500 is beacuse low interest YEN has been poured into indian marker by FII. Let interest rates in YEN rise to 4-5% and see the effects.
Take any Indian IT star and compare it's valuation parameters with IBM, HP, Yahoo, EDS etc etc you will see the valution of indian stock is on crazy side.
There is definately a good story in INdian development and no doubt India is growing and will continue to do so, however economic reality does not beget this fast a growth in stock market or currency.
India has to run a marathon and it cannot run it at the speed of 100M runner.
In the next two decades, we will see the world change from being Dollar-centric and English-centric to a multi-polar one. We are in the initial stages of this transition. Dollar will go up and down but over the long term, the Dollar Illusion will fade away.
America and the Dollar Illusion http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,440054,00.html A SUPERPOWER IN DECLINE http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,439766,00.html
Indian IT companies need to tread carefully, especially with their man-power costs. I am sure most of them will adapt and survive.
Rising rupee is unpalatable to NRIs (I being one of them). Behind all the scholarly arguments put forth, there is this personal apprehension about the erosion of the gap between NRI and Resident Indians and the loss of that materialistic respect he commands today.
RE:Long term view
by Sam on Jun 20, 2007 07:32 AM Permalink
not true, I am an NRI and I love rupee, 'coz NRI's have investments in India too. We play both sides. :-)
Its ok rupee is becoming stronger..what it has to do with common man who live in middle class colony.Nothing is changing for masses in India..come NDA or UPA..or any abc alliance..what they have done to common man.This is a country where person who has never done shopping as common man is finance minister,a man who have never attended even ncc camp is defence minister forget about if he has ever heard of a gunshot even,man who hardly travel on train by buying a ticket is railways minister..also IAS people are sports team selectors haha..I invite these loongee misniters to go to local grocery shop and find the prices and then talk about super power.In few cities big malls have come up with nike,adidas like showrooms and we r thinking we are super power.In this country we are still getting same kind of thrashing from cops..get into local bus..conductor still yell at you..go to hospital and nevr sure if these docs will remove my kidney and sell in local market..Hopeless people..get some life stop yelling about super power..get back to ground and wake up..last 20 yrs I have not seen many changes but malls only..that too running on generator power..No bijlee ..North India will have soon 8 hrs of power cuts when paddy season will start..Wake-up man wake up....
RE:What for common man ??
by Insane on Jun 20, 2007 06:06 AM Permalink
Who is a common man..define it...and all tht u said..a man rises if he wishes too...there is no free lunch...if common man want to spend his entire life in a shanty..that's his choice..ppl like dhirubhai ambani and JRD TATA made a choice..nd guess wt they achieved in their life time...instead of cursing the govt, all the time..why doesnt he common man try to change his destiny...there is no free lunch in this world...common man doesnt have a job..good..create a job..what does the common man have to loose..he has nothing to begin with...
RE:What for common man ??
by lucky on Jun 20, 2007 06:21 AM Permalink
Think beyond job..common man is like u and me..we are good when we r in office..we are superior having top edge meetings..and on the exit gate of the same office we become common man..whole day in power back-up office and looking and crowd out there in the sun from tinted glass windows...when at home power outage..right ? I am also not in favour of free lunch..but paid lunch with cooking oil which is not adultrated. Dont take shelter under big names they are fine..reason common man is not having job is that he is not able bribe the selection board
RE:What for common man ??
by Insane on Jun 20, 2007 07:56 AM Permalink
i m nt takin shelter under ne1..nd i dnt need to...i knw things rnt goin to change..so i changed the way i looked at it...the problem wid common man is tht he cant think beyond 9-5, 2 children and finally blood pressure and diabetes...all i m sayin is tht we need to solve our own problems,,who is askin a common to bribe for a job..y cnt he create his own job and employ 10 more ppl....u cnt change the system then work around it...how difficult is tht...
RE:What for common man ??
by shiva on Jun 20, 2007 07:20 AM Permalink
There are many problems and nobody has a magic wand to solve them.
The solution has to come from you and me. We are adept at pointing out the problems and hoping others will solve them. We have potiticians who can hardly stand up or see properly holding on to power. Why, for the simple reason others are not willing to take over. These problems will never go away unless we are ready to act and do the hard work. Henry Ford had said if one feels problems cannot be solved, it cannot be solved. We need to have positive attitude.
We are carrying the old baggage most of which are irrelevant today. China wants to create wealth and they know for that disclipline at any cost is necessary. They have achieved a lot and many of us just have to marvel. There is no secret formula, only hard work and positive attitude.
We have to have a sea change in attitude. It may take time, but if each will do that little all will be done. Let us coexist. We should not stand still and hope the poverty will go away. Let us welcome the positives of modern world.
India needs to sieze this opportunity and do as follows:
1. Re-invest in infrastructure, specially power, roads, healthcare. 2. Overhaul the outdted constitution and modernize it as per presnt times. discourage 'vote bank', 'religion/caste' based politics. 3. Discourage gundas from entering politics. 4. Reduce corruption. 5. Modernize the army, make them more 'offensive' in nature rather than just 'defensive'.(Israel can help.
with the kind of 'jokers' we have in our government, honestly, it appears to me as a pipe dream....
I think firstly if the rupee appreciates any futher, the jobs are coming back to the US. Even today, running a business in places outside Silicon Valley (eg RTP) is cheaper than setting up business in B'lore.
The top 100 companies in Silicon Valley (100 square mile radius) have a market cap of more than 1.5 trillion dollars. Its good India reached the 1 trillion dollar mark, but no need to day dream. India needs to improve productivity, reduce corruption and fix its infrastructure before it can think about making the rupee appreciate any further. Thanks Jay
RE:Crap
by Sumit Bhandari on Jun 20, 2007 05:43 AM Permalink
HEy J, First of all, India in that given scenario would not only depend on Outsourcing, there can be other businesses.. we would be able to export our products (manufacturing or agricultural or whatever) at much higher rates. Everybody knows that its not only the low cost labour but also the quality the indian companies offer, that is making india a hot spot in IT and manufacturing? everybody knows its driven by demand and demand in India is so freaking high.. With high value of rupee NRIs like me would certainly return back to india for i would have no incentives leaving abroad and treated like a secondary citizen.
RE:Crap
by on Jun 20, 2007 05:52 AM Permalink
Sumit, all the growth in India is 'as of now' predominantly based on IT and back office support...where is manufacturing..from diwali bulbs to hindu god idols..all made in china or taiwan...we are way behind china and other low cost regions in manufacturing...there was a time when a BCOM or a BA could not get a job..so engineering and medicine was the only way out..now they can..in 2000 courses like BCA, MCA, BIT etc etc flourished the market..nd ppl who gt in are today banking on IT and outsourced job..declining rupee means that labour is no longer cheap...nd trust me u cn train a monkey to do a job...so lets forget about oh we indians are so smart...honestly nobody cares...the 3 biggies of indian IT have almost all their customers overseas...if india is no longer able to provide cheap labor..y wud anybody invest in india...furthermore, if u r in IT u wud knw tht most of the jobs that r being outsourced to india are no-brainers....these jobs r synonymous to the operator jobs in manufacturing environment....if India can't innovate and develop all this growth and big financial and economics we are talkin about is goin to fall flat..
RE:RE:Crap
by Sumit Bhandari on Jun 20, 2007 06:03 AM Permalink
HEy "on", Mate, i tell you what, I am being billed at 75 dollars per hour and that makes my cost to company at like 150 thousand dollars per annum; they could easily hire a local person at 100k (max.) why are they retaining me??? Well i work more, faster, better quality and I think we Indians have a good brand value abroad, now a days. Now talking about manufacturing, dude, if you know China is the fake/piracy capital of the world. I am proud that we Indians earn from our Hard work and not by wrong means.. Again, if China gets Democracy it would no longer be able to provide the cheap goods, because then people would have the rights to decide their own prices. Hmm.. let us consider communist India, every software pro or what ever worker in india would have to work for min. 12 hours a day, 7 days a week and flat salary of 15k per month? Where you think India would be? at top, right? and Indians?????? In hell.
RE:Crap
by Ajay on Jun 20, 2007 06:50 AM Permalink
Sumit,
So your company is billing the client @ 75 dolars or you are billing your company @ 75...sorry a bit confused.
Last time i hires someone form Oracle India i paid 300/hr, believe this a Oracle rate, be it Canadian resource or Indian.
I will be very happy if Re appreciates.
No doubt Indian resources are good but to call others crap will be a big mistake. Besides if i was working in IT in India i would be very worried about the way Re is going.
RE:Crap
by on Jun 20, 2007 07:52 AM Permalink
Dude, there is a difference between employee salary and CTC. If they hire a local person at 100k, then CTC could be more or less $150K. In addition to that the client can capitalize the entire deliverable cost (in your case $75/hr) they receive from outsourcing vendor, because they buy service/source code from the vendor compared capitalizing its own employee's production (in IT case - source code). Whenever one capitalizes an asset, naturally they can depreciate that asset for tax accounting purposes. Put all this things together, your client saves more than $150K they pay their outsourcing vendor (read your contract house). Bottomline is its profitable for both client and vendor, not because we Indians are (relatively) smarter than locals (depending on region). Also, hardworking in IT companies, is nothing compared hardworking in manufacturing, especially in China, which you already mentioned in your comment.
RE:Crap
by Insane on Jun 20, 2007 06:13 AM Permalink
To begin with I am talking about jobs in India...secondly..why your company is keeping..well..you cost $75/hour to your company..yes you work more, fast etc etc..u work what 2 locals can do (btw americans arnt stupid or dumb.i have come across real brainers )...that's why they r retaining you. they are spending 150k for 1 person doing the work for 2 ppl...now add 2 locals..if I go by what u said 100k (which i don't believe..as cost of a person is determined by what are his returns to the company) it would cost your company 200k...so still they r at a profit of 50k. I agree with what u said for China too...but if rupee falls...IT goes and so does manufacturing...then india and indians will be at the same place..hell...
RE:Crap
by Truth BeTold on Jun 20, 2007 06:10 AM Permalink
Sumit Bhandari, I dont exactly know which country you live in, but could you explain me what makes you feel that you are being treated as a "secondary" citizen? I have never ever had to face any discrimination of any kind in the US for being an outsider. Consider that to our tempers, when we in Mumbai dont want people coming in from all over India. Who is then the secondary citizen in their own country?
RE:RE:Crap
by Insane on Jun 20, 2007 06:18 AM Permalink
I agree man...go to mumbai and the cops, vendors, ticket checkers will screw yur happiness if they find tht u dont know marathi..go down south..they wont speak hindi...go up north to delhi..the autoriskshaw and taxi drivers will rip u the moment they realise u dnt have a northie hindi accent...secnd class..we are never frst class my frnd...most of u live abroad..when u come to indian immigration they wnt to rip u off nd screw yur happiness bt these same immigration officials are nice humans to foreigners..then when u go to a foreign country again u gt screwed 'coz u r brown...so lets not talk 'bout citizenship..we r secnd class every where..even in our country..
RE:Crap
by Mitul Mehta on Jun 20, 2007 07:01 AM Permalink
If India / Indian currency wants to really grow and compete with "developed" countries, there should be a strong domestic demand for goods & services. Our reliance on other economies (like the US) for business should decrease. Hypothetically, if all IT outsourcing to India stops with immediate effect, we will have over 20 million people going jobless (not considering jobs supporting this industry like travel & hospitality, etc which will push the figure even further up). This is an extremely scary situation. Also, Indian businesses should be encouraged to innovate and become globally competetive to withstand MNCs in the home turf. Personally, I am extremely happy with the banking industry in India. Today ICICI & HDFC have given extremely tough competition to MNCs like Citibank & HSBC without any "special treatement" from the Indian government. We should repeat the same in other sectors like FMCG, durables, etc... Doing all this is not easy... India has to go thru a lot of change... but definately not impossible!
RE:Crap
by dull roots on Jun 20, 2007 05:49 AM Permalink
Second your perspectives! The money inflow in India is also due to inflow from NRIs and various forms of FDI. Better to focus of policies to enhance productivity, efficiency, quality of goods and servies, market competitiveness etc.. We need transformation in physical infrastructure and marketisation of land, and a host of other assets.
Else, in per Capita terms it will take more than 100 years to catch up.
What we dont realize in the wake of currency strengthening is dollar is getting weaker, rupee is not getting stronger. Also, Indian strength is cheap labor. We do believe we are the best in IT but thats not true. We do good copy work. We dont have innovation to support our claims. If Rupee were to get stronger, jobs will be outsourced to countries like poland, romania and mexico. Did you know that even TCS has opened a branch in mexico with 300 people working and plans to hire upto 5000 people? So i dont think dollar going down is good for India. Also, most of the US debt is in dollars and other countries hold things are Bonds of US Treasury, now when dollar goes down their liabilities which is our asset will go down as well. I think it will hit the equilibrium again and if it doesnt happen fast enough, I think manmohan singh's govt is smart enough to intervene and maintain a decent rate (I dont know what that would be but definitely no less than 38-40 rupess to a dollar
RE:Innovation
by on Jun 20, 2007 05:24 AM Permalink
I think of all the ppl out here..u md a good point..if the rupee becomes stronger or even it comes to 1:20 ratio..all the IT firms will bid adieu to us...furthermore we dont have too many home grown industries..so guess whose getting screwed...
India doesnt even have 1 percent share of the world trade and we are talking about Rupee becoming the world currency? There is a limit to chest beating but I think we Indians have crossed it a long while ago. How about addressing some real issues like infrastructure, good roads, 24 hr electricity, potable drinking water to people first, rather than dreaming of becoming a superpower?
RE:Are you kidding me?
by Sam on Jun 20, 2007 04:42 AM Permalink
India a superpower?? Basics guys, How can a country that hasn't attacked anyone in 2000 years become a superpower??
You must atleast attack someone, in order to 'qualify' for 'superpower'.
RE:RE:Are you kidding me?
by Truth BeTold on Jun 20, 2007 04:46 AM Permalink
Sam, I know the tone of your reply but unfortunately its true.. We are a soft nation, we get screwed by a bunch of terrorists and release all of them (Kandhahar example), imagine this happening in Israel for that matter.
Look at the big picture, and we are nowhere near the top. Numbers dont mean everything.
RE:Are you kidding me?
by indiman on Jun 20, 2007 05:31 AM Permalink
And Israel ending up with egg on its face as with Hizbollah last year. 7000 Hizbollah figters stopped the 700000 strong Israeli army that had all the latest technogy, warplanes and tanks. There is another word for this stupidity, I am glad India is not as stupid. Our time will come and we will assert ourselves. We are still the tiger waiting to pounce, because the day we rise no Arab invaders or the british empire or any other power can enslave us. If you think India didnt invade others then you just dont know your history. Check out this Indian navy site.
RE:Are you kidding me?
by Truth BeTold on Jun 20, 2007 05:37 AM Permalink
Indiman, Kandahar was just one of the many "stupid" things that different Indian governments have done in the past to show that we are the soft state (like 1971 war with Pakistan, we won it but lost the land).
Remember, a decade ago, Malysia and Indonesia were called the asian tigers, soon their economy was in toilet and currency had the value of toilet paper. If we dont get the basics of economy right, everything will come down sooner or later.
RE:DON'T SAVE IN DOLLARS
by madhukar a on Jun 20, 2007 03:40 AM Permalink
lol. good point! Its better to convert to Rupees unless you have plan to migrate to Europe(sigh!). Though once in rupees you wont be able to convert all of it back to Dollars.
You can convert $100,000 to US dollars/year with out any questions. By writing letter to RBI on your intention to invest in foreign investments, any Individual can convert 1 million dollars.
If you open a private limited firm, then you could transfer unlimited amount for all practical purposes.
If rupee appreciation is not a good sign, Indian government should not hesitate to peg the rupee to around 40 mark, like how Malaysia has pegged the dollar@3.8 Economy growth is crucial at this stage
