One of the main reason we dont have innovation is because we are taught more theoritical than practical. We all know well how to write and pass exams. We are not good at when a problem or situation is thrown at us and come up with innovative and best possible solutions. But in west they are very good at that due the way they are taught. They are very practical from the right beginning of kids education. Our education systems needs reform.
Let me share some fact about testing. I am over six years of experience today. When i entered the IT industry i too had the same feeling. Always wanted to do only development. Being a CS graduate from a NIT, computer programming always facsinated me. I joined a service industry in the interest of getting my H1B and to get a opening in the US i accepted testing job. Today from testing i moved to technical markeitng and working in the US for a product based client. This six years taught me many things. Just developing a product with pre-defined FS does not complete product development. Its only thorugh testing a product develops and grows to it full potential. Also the enhancement, future development and evolution of the product greatly depends upon testing. Tehnical Marketing brings the market demand to developemt team and gives direction for future product development. Testing team plays very important rule in product devlopent. Devlopment and testing are two sides of a coin. A product just can not exists either only with development or only with testing. A testing team member contributes as much as a developer contributes in a product. I dont agree that only devlopers has credit in product developmet.
RE:Why people take testing as low profile job?
by bobby ananda on Jul 20, 2007 02:18 AM Permalink
Bhagat u missed the whole point. Whether it is development or testing what we are debating is the creativity thing. NO NOVICE IDEA LANDING UP. Our competitor China is way ahead. See them coming up with new things in all the areas including hardware internals, down the line before many years China was said to be a no-good-duplicate product nation. Now they are not. R&D did work better for them. We got to appreicate and work accordingly.
RE:Why people take testing as low profile job?
by satya s on Jul 20, 2007 05:29 PM Permalink
The vision,market,quality has to exist first for the product to evolve.Testing is only relevant as long it helps to achieve the desired goals.
A product's competitive advantage often depends on its unique value and quality to its customers.
This is where developers are more vital.In ensuring a quality product comes out first.Then only it makes sense to evolve.
your points are taken and well made.
but if you look from a strategic viewpoint,quality is largely set by the time development is over.
Testing improves on it ofcourse.but its subsidary nevertheless
It's not the head count matters. We need innovation? Like China is building their own operating system. We need innovative products from India. Any thoughts?
RE:But where is innovation?
by bobby ananda on Jul 20, 2007 02:01 AM Permalink
Good point Rafiq. But that is where government should invest and private companies look for their own ways. Universities and IIT's can join hands on such occasions But interestingly it can come from a altogetherly a different section - the people. So we cant blame any MNC's for this. It is our attitude to get creative and I wish people like you are everywhere. Good one buddy.
RE:But where is innovation?
by Rahul on Jul 20, 2007 02:02 AM Permalink
IT in india is totally depended on Services, apart some small exceptions, developing innovative products is a long dream.
RE:But where is innovation?
by bobby ananda on Jul 20, 2007 02:14 AM Permalink
I agree Rahul. It is chicken and egg story. Our industries are ready for new technology? Wel yes may be but the IT companies happy making money by services rather than going for the research. Now even Infosys slowly changing the business model. They are getting BA's and R&D beefed up to change the path of development. In the long run if dont high risk of losing out to China and Ireland.
RE:But where is innovation?
by kalyan chakrawarthy on Jul 20, 2007 02:38 AM Permalink
Do you think building operating system is an innovation. Its just reinventing the wheel, India youth has to come with really innovative ideas which had to set the benchmarks in their respective fields.
Working with Cisco systems and we were 1000 one year back and we are 3000 today. expecting to rise to 5000 in the next year. Lots of quality work coming to India. As someone said below only testing and stuff are done .. NO ... we do a lot of development and are driving new business.
RE:Please reply
by mbawmba on Jul 19, 2007 05:07 PM Permalink
What great vision man? IT accounts for LESS THAN 2% of INDIAN GDP !! We need more and more work here.
RE:Please reply
by bobby ananda on Jul 20, 2007 02:19 AM Permalink
The IT rates are running like a mad horse. So a downslide could come from 2% even. But there could be new IT parks where we can go for lesser rates.
RE:need to produce Quality with quantity
by mbawmba on Jul 19, 2007 04:58 PM Permalink
Unstoppable before we reach the end of cliff. China will take up most of these low end jobs at a much cheaper rate. We need to move up the value-chain.
Not all H-1B holder are working on core R&D projects. They are also working under not only inefficient (rather worst) managers at onsite. Many on them are working as onsite co-ordinator and licking the client , just to ensure that their contract is renewed for next quarter.
RE:But what H-1 B holder do
by mbawmba on Jul 19, 2007 04:59 PM Permalink
Yeah !! But they move to Google / Microsoft headquarters eventually. Of course some talent is required to do that in America.
RE:But what H-1 B holder do
by satya s on Jul 20, 2007 05:40 PM Permalink
AFAIK, its difficult to get into many of the top estblished companies like google without a masters degree in the states and then using PT to get on to your dream job.
i doubt they take in h1 holders with indian degrees unless they find sonmething very useful.
RE:But what H-1 B holder do
by bobby ananda on Jul 20, 2007 02:09 AM Permalink
See I agree to an extend but not everything. It is our mistake that we tend to "lick" culture which I dont think is needed as long as liasion is good and so is our technical knowledge. But when it fails we start "lick". Nevertheless not all bad in this aspect. I saw this "lick" in India - not to forget our best IT man innocently playing national anthem in music not to embarass the foreigners. See I have seen our Indian team removed from the client lunch which was really bad. In USA they never do that. Atleast that is my experience. So let is change first before blaming them. So some of us have to change our attitude being good is different from being submissive.
Can we boast of a Mercedes level IT product? We are still on the services bullock-cart and want to be Global IT Research Giants? The entire IT structure has to be revamped? In my time I have seen Managers managing hi-tech projects but having ZERO technical knowledge. All the best IT brains would prefer to be on the H1B plane then work under such incapable and incompetent managers.
RE:First get good managers
by satya s on Jul 20, 2007 05:36 PM Permalink
This is unrealistic when you don't have the supporting ecosystem for it.
USA has over 100 reseacrh level univs,even its more average univ has better facilities than the iiT'S,top notch professors from around the world conducting research,funds from NSF,young men gifted with immense resources with the public librairies and the purchasing power of a developed economy.And the small matter of finding excperinced people who have been involved in product development before and been through it all before.! how many such people are there in india?
without building on such supporting environment, innovation will only remain a pipe dream.
RE:First get good managers
by mbawmba on Jul 19, 2007 04:07 PM Permalink
Current state of IT companies in India:- 1) There is a mad rush to get rich, MONEY comes first, then CLIENT. 2)Best practices, CMM levels, Software Engineering, Human Capital Management, Service Level Agreements, Software Testing (All the Jingos)etc...are just that - Words. Nobody knows how to get these words to work for them. 3) The BEST man. Every project has one - the guy who is technical wizard. He is the sheep who is fleeced to warm the butts of his incompetent team members and his technically DUNCE manager. He is the bread winner for them all. 4) Most people will stick to this best man , or play to the insecurities of their managers. All to just get more money in next appraisal or get a lucrative onsite posting. Adding VALUE to work. What? 5) BEST MAN is always trying to run from company to company or fly-off to America. He is sick of being a charitable institute.
RE:First get good managers
by mbawmba on Jul 19, 2007 04:15 PM Permalink
6) HR guys? They know that they are dealing with slave labor. According to them these machines just know money and are not supposed to be understood. 7) The people are compartmentalized. You have Testers, Developers, Managers, Leads, Facilities, HR, Finance, Senior Management ALL working without any knowledge of OTHERS. Seldom they realize that the best product development companies are knitted as closely as families. Knitted with the BEST!!
RE:First get good managers
by mbawmba on Jul 19, 2007 04:20 PM Permalink
8) Every wondered why is it that only INDIAN companies are trying for CMM level certifications? By Indian I also mean Indian subsidiaries of MNC's. 9) Anybody who speaks of cleansing the system is mercilessly discarded. Talk about feudal culture and honest assesments. 10) Yes. I don't have a job.
RE:First get good managers
by bobby ananda on Jul 20, 2007 02:11 AM Permalink
well said. Wanted to say all this from years but u etched it well.Great going guys.
