Tata is a good man and his company has done more for India than anyone posting here. That said, he is a pilot and flies his own Falcon 200 business jet. So good for him if Lockheed Martin wants to let him fly F-16s or whatever.. BTW He is not there to decide what aircraft IAF should buy. However he may manufacture some advanced avionics India needs in collaboration with Lockheed Martin. Tata group is one of the most modest ,old well managed companies of India. All my best to Tata.
Guys whts wrong with u ppl. Tata is no AB or SRK to promote things taking few Crores of rupees, he is chairman of Tata Group (Multi-Billion Company), the most modest and old company of India. He is just fulfilling his passion. Did he suggest any thing in writing or on Television that rediff and u guys have put an unwanted debate on this visionary industrialist... Grow up
RE:TATA IS TATA..
by Anil Kumar on Feb 09, 2007 02:59 AM Permalink
i agree with you huzaifa!!in a broder sense we should buy f-18's from USA(WITH TECHNOLOGY TRANSFER AND JOINT PRODUCTION OF SPARE PARTS ETC).We are as a nation are capable of going for such a deal!!.
i am not sure why should TATA help decide the Inidan Airforce which aircraft they need. the airforce should have enough knowledge on what kind of aircraft is suitable for our country.
RE:whats TATAs business in this?
by Ramya Rajagopalan on Feb 08, 2007 11:06 PM Permalink
When is India going to design and build its Combat Aircrafts???
RE:RE:whats TATAs business in this?
by Ramya Rajagopalan on Feb 08, 2007 11:07 PM Permalink
Instead of buying old models from US, there by funding their military (mis)adventures in other countries
RE:whats TATAs business in this?
by apjunkmail on Feb 09, 2007 12:09 AM Permalink
Tata is a good man and have done more for India than anyone posting here. That said, he is a pilot and flies his own Falcon 200 business jet. So good for him if Lockheed Martin wants to let him fly F-16s or whatever.. BTW He is not there to decide what aircraft IAF should buy.
Ratan Tata can very well suggest which make will be best for our future Air Force the old model or the new models which is high tech in our demand for our air security through our Air Force.Our Navy is world famous so should our Air Force also be saddled with latest fool proof models in Air crafts.Our Defense men are also as precious as our nation is.So the choice is any ones guess.....
RE:RE:Ratan Tata will know now what is best for Indian Air Force......
by Mahesh MVU on Feb 08, 2007 10:33 PM Permalink
Yeah, and the navy was actually negotiating for used AV 8B harriers from the Royal Navy! Even Admiral Gorshkov, or INS Vikramaditya as it will soon be called was lying in limbo for a while before the Navy decided to refurbish and buy it. Thankfully, the Mig 29K aircraft and Kamov helicopters will be brand new.
RE:RE:Ratan Tata will know now what is best for Indian Air Force......
by Manny on Feb 08, 2007 10:38 PM Permalink
The F-16s and the F18s are only behind the F-22 Raptors and the F-35 JSFs..which are prohibily expensive to buy even if the US is willing to sell these.
Its not just the Aircract itself..its the avionics that the US has along with the F-16s and F-18s they....are the best in the world. And its these avionics gives the F-16 the kill ratio it has on its record. There is nothing in the world.. not even the F-15Eagles comes close.
IF buying either of these F16/F18 aricrafts allows India to get the the latest air to air missles... its important.
Remember "Raytheon recently supplied sidewinder and AMRAAM air-to- air missiles to Pakistan worth $280 million, arming the country for the first time with beyond visual range combat capability."
These can take out the Sukhoi's without even coming close.
RE:RE:RE:Ratan Tata will know now what is best for Indian Air Force......
by Amit Mishra on Feb 09, 2007 09:40 AM Permalink
I would beg to disgaree! The BVRAAM missiles have been around for a long time & most of the airforces have developed countermeasures for it. It would definately pose threat to heavy aircraft but to a swift and agile aircraft like the Su-30 in the hands of a experienced pilot it would hardly be a threat. the logic is simple... BVRAAM's advantage lies in its standoff distance. BVRAAMs are launcehd 50-80 kms from the target ( say a Su-30 in this case ) the launching aircraft (say a F-16) must first lockon to the target with radar & then fire. The Sukhoi pilot can obviously know that he is locked of (or he maybe warned by an AWACS aircraft). He can launch countermeasures or go down low behind any obstuctions or just fly off in the opposite direction. Morever with the type of distances seperating Indian & Pakistani foraward airbases would seriously lit the use of BVRAAMs. And to sum it all up... these come with a hefty pricetag!!!
RE:RE:RE:Ratan Tata will know now what is best for Indian Air Force......
by Ashutosh Kole on Feb 08, 2007 11:01 PM Permalink
Our Air Force has some history. Our personals are trained to use Russian (or Non US) plains. Changing our supplier will cause lots of confusion and thus accidents. Moreover Ratan Tata should not decide fate of our Air Force. The Government is capable of doing that. US is using Ratan Tata to advertise and pressuring the government but we should be aware of American pressure and nature in general. They are not here to help us. If they were, they would have not supplied the same aircraft to Pakistan
The C-130J is a modern variation of the classic C-130. The C-130J has 6 prop engines while the earliner ones have 4 props. The US Armed forces are yet to incorporate them into their services yet. They are modern and cutting edge as far as transport aircrafts go.
RE:Want to see a C-130 land on an aircraft carrier?
by Mahesh MVU on Feb 08, 2007 10:28 PM Permalink
The C-130J has 4 Turboprop engines, but each engine drives a 6 bladed propeller.
RE:RE:RE:Want to see a C-130 land on an aircraft carrier?
by Mahesh MVU on Feb 08, 2007 10:39 PM Permalink
Ok cool...I think the C-130J has hit service entry though...The US is dying to sell them to us...I dont think its gonna be a bad deal. Its gonna be a lot better than the AN 32 for sure!
RE:RE:RE:RE:Want to see a C-130 land on an aircraft carrier?
by apjunkmail on Feb 10, 2007 12:16 AM Permalink
India needs to look at the bigger C-5B Galaxy strategic transport aircraft. If IL76s can be built in India it would be great. btw there is no aircraft carrier in India that can transport aircraft can land on.
People compare the manuverablity of the Sukhhoi and say..this is a better aircraft than the other one..so that should be bought.
The days of close aircombat dog fights are over.. Its all about BVR (Beyond Visual Range) category. In that phase, nothing.. I mean nothing...comes close to the US.
I feel India should go the F-18 Hornets as well as the C-130J Hercs. Even the US armed service have not incorprated the C-130Js as yet. I have seen the C-130 do a STOL (short field take off and Landings). Its mind blowing to watch this ugly beast, take off from less than 2000 feet of runway in an almost 45degree angle.
Strategic alliance with the US is important without spoling the Russian partnership.. So the Sukhois for strategic aircrafts as well as signing the deal with them for the 5th gen aircrafts should keep them happy.
But we need the force multiplyer technoligies from the US to augment the fine Sukhois.
RE:There is more to this purchase than an aircraft
by Mahesh MVU on Feb 08, 2007 10:51 PM Permalink
I wonder if the US is fielding the F 35 JSF and peddling it to us....that is a much better buy than the F 16. It incorporates the latest technologies and is the best single engined fighter today. It is also avavilable in three versions: the CTOL, STOL and STOVL. That will be a much better aircraft than either the F 16, Saab Gripen, Mirage 2000, Mig 29 or even the Dassault Rafale. The EF 2000 is not a bad buy either....but that might a dalliance with EADS or the European Union....which India is not prepared to enter in. The final decision will still belong to the Babus in Delhi, lets hope they make the right one!!!
RE:RE:There is more to this purchase than an aircraft
by Manny on Feb 09, 2007 01:25 AM Permalink
The F35 JSF costs $195Mill and the F22 Raptors costs more than $250Mill a piece.
Its way too expensive. Even though the US airforce and Navy may replace their aging F-18s, they are are still ordering and retaing thei F-18E Super Hornets. and complimenting them with the F-35s.
If India goes for the F18E/F super hornets, we may eventually request the F35s. Australia just placed an order for the F18Es inspute of they beig part of the F35 JSF development partners.
Let us analyse F-16 and SU-30 MKI. Besides enginer power measured in thrust and speed, the design of an Aircraft in terms of Wing Shape, Cockpit etc. effects a lot on the performance of a Fighter Plane as well as on the Pilot.
The best feature with SU-30 MKI is the elevated cockpit, which gives the pilot better vision and control, thus offering him complete control over the battlefield and in Dogfights. When comparing F-16 with SU, I feel SU is much.. much better.
Another feature which greatly effect the performance is the Avionics Software fitted in these aircrafts. It is on the these Softwares to calculate and tell the Pilot when to shoot missiles or drop bombs, so that it will hit the target precisely. Of course, a pilot moving at twice the speed of sound cannot take this decision manually on his own. The Avionics Software does it for him.
Recently Pakistan (US close friend) scrapped F-16 deal with US because they supplied with the old (read as 'useless') version of Avionics, bacause as we all know: US HEGEMONY!! US never wants other country to possess the technology and power as it does.
Comparing on these scales, I think we should rely on SU-30 MKI rather than F-16.
RE:Real power of a Fighter / Bomber
by Pavan C. Joshi on Feb 09, 2007 12:35 AM Permalink
100 % Bang-On !
US can't give Pak F-16, Pak re-sells to China ! Su-MKI...now this is sheer magic. Nothing in the world comes even close. Moreover, India can get into software code-sharing with the Russians, co-development, and equitable upgrades etc.
Re. avionics (software-specially control s/w), India and Russia can be equal partners!
RE:RE:Real power of a Fighter / Bomber
by Rapid Snail on Feb 09, 2007 02:36 PM Permalink
>> Su-MKI...now this is sheer magic. Nothing in the world comes even close.
Ha ha.... Obviously you haven't heard of the F-22 Raptor, F-35 JSF or even the Mikoyan 1.44
RE:RE:RE:Real power of a Fighter / Bomber
by apjunkmail on Feb 10, 2007 12:23 AM Permalink
India should get some F-22 (fully loaded)that it can carry over into next 20years. May be just 30-40 of the. F-16, F-15, even F/A 18 is old ...
RE:Real power of a Fighter / Bomber
by Rapid Snail on Feb 08, 2007 09:54 PM Permalink
Dude.. How can you compare Su-30MKI with the F-16?? SU is a heavy class fighter and F-16 is a lightweight fighter. Comparing them would be like comparing apples and oranges.
If you want compare the F-15E and Su-30MKI.. Or the F-16 and the Mig-29. These are comparable aircraft.
I doubt if you were really a pilot, to make such stupid comments. You washed the windows of a few aircraft maybe..he he...
RE:Real power of a Fighter / Bomber
by Manny on Feb 08, 2007 09:22 PM Permalink
F-16 is a single engine multi role aircraft...while the SU-30 MKI is a twin engine strategic aircraft. Not sure, why you would compare the two. IF you want to compare the MKI, you should compare it with the Eagle F15s or the the F-22 Raptors.
F-16s are small light weight agile and aircarfts, they are in a different category altheogher..its one of the most successful aircrafts in the world. Its even more successful tha the F-15 Eagles
RE:RE:RE:Real power of a Fighter / Bomber
by Ashutosh Kole on Feb 08, 2007 11:07 PM Permalink
What are you Manny? an US agent? Looks like you are the only one who wants to buy US junk!
RE:RE:RE:RE:Real power of a Fighter / Bomber
by Manny on Feb 09, 2007 01:29 AM Permalink
I am not an agent.. I have lived here in the US since the late 80's. My Brother in Law is a Col and a CO in the Indiam armed forces. I have a cousin who flies choppers for the IAF. and another cousin who is a Major in the Signals corp. And I have my classmate who is now a Lt.General...who won the sword of honor at the IMA during Indira Gandhi times (1983?).
so..no I am not an US Agent.
BTW.. I am a pilot myself. Not the jet kind..But the single and Multi engine props.
