When an American F-16 pilot asked the Paks this Q. FROM PURELY the PAF point of veiw which do you guys think will be their worst nitemare.......
The Answer:
Definetly the Super Hornet would be a greater threat.
IAF has yet to see the wonders of the US hardware which is on any given day, gives the biggest bang for the buck. The availability rates alone on the Hornet would be equal to the M2K in the IAF service...IAF is very happy with the Mirages and if they get something with this kind of uptime (which the Hornet and Viper (Viper even more so), provide), then the IAF would be very happy...they would be able to generate more sorties and the F/A-18 is a better swing role aircraft than the Mig-35 (besides from a maint. standpoint, you still have the usual Russian engine issues of high MTTR, low MTBF etc.).
Even if the MRCA order is split 50/50, 60 or so F/A-18s in the IAF would be a major problem for the PAF despite the induction of 36 blk-52 F-16s..I would think that with the induction of J-10 with western avionics, PAF would be able to pose considerable deterrance to a beefed up IAF with F/A-18s, MKIs, Mig-35s and M2Ks.
May be they already have them, Airborne Early Warning, Command and Control (AEWC&C) systems are needed for real-time intelligence and command and control to achieve and maintain air superiority over the combat area and to enable surveillance of borders in peacetime
F 16 would not have got better publicity. The mission of friendship has been accomplished. How much will it be to take over Lockheed Martin? We are always proud of you.
Most of us know the TATA's very well...Being modest in their nature.....they contributed to India.....alot....If you see the indian history....many fellows came to india..from other countries...for business....and then moved indian wealth into their countres...where as TATAs are excetional...even though they come from Parsy (I suppose)...they developed india...by establishing factories in many fields.....they were first into airlines/insurance/autombles/IT/Hospitatlity/Steel..and many many...With their modest approach..they never tried to advertise themself as they are great and so..and they were always kept distant with politicial parties..have you seen TATAs with any politician...very rare.....we know, how politics can influence industries here in india..that too when TATAs are in many many areas....They never in the news (badly) except recently..with their Singur project.....That too its not their fault..its the govt.....in West bengal.and the politicians....
I think many people dont know that..TATAs are first to introduce..Provident Fund schemes in organisations....after a long time...govt.made it as mandatory.....If they were selfish..they would have not done that....They committed for india..by establishing the industires here...No one should should question the attitude/personality of..tatas....Many people knows what they did with TATA steel.....when they were in the losses....and when they needs to reduce the employess size.... they paid the full salary of the employess till their retirement...so that their lifes....were not spoiled.....Who will show this much for india society......Of course later on they put the TATA Steel back into profits... Dont think that I am strong supporter of TATAs..but after seeing all politicians and industrialists...we can notice..
RE:its a conspirasy!!
by nitin gupta on Feb 09, 2007 05:29 AM Permalink
wipro and infosys are also investing in overseas markets like vietnam, thailand and US. should we also pull out our investments from them??
All the global MNC companies generate money from their homelands and expand overseas. this is the way it works. they can only ask for money from the people of the country where they have a credibility. can you imaging narayan murty or tata going to poland/france/australia/usa to generate money, will they give him money? no. you can only ask for money from people who know that you can deliver.. and thats what he is doing..
Cant you see that peopl like tata/mittal/murthy can make domestic indian companies - world leaders!! only with the support of indians.. so instead of crying hoarse, we should support them.
unless you just want to look at awe and oogle at other foreign MNCs and ridicule any indian from going international..
This is the true meaning of INDIA POISED.. INDIA SHINING.. etc. if you can get my point.
RE:RE:its a conspirasy!!
by Nutan Kumar on Feb 09, 2007 06:58 AM Permalink
TATAs - True leader of the nation. we should not forget their contribution for our country. None of other individuals, family or company are near to them. If we can not appreciate TATA's efforts, we do not have rights to talk against TATA. So please let him do his good work.
RE:RE:its a conspirasy!!
by Anil Kumar on Feb 11, 2007 12:44 AM Permalink
Nitin,why our fellow country men resist so much for a different point of view and COMPLAINED and removed my post.I only stated the facts regarding TATA tea funding ULFA terrorists in Assam,middle managment cannot take these decisions without Top level approval).Why TATA should be involved in a usd 12 billion doller AIR fighter jets deal..when we should evaluate that deal in a fair manner,This not their business.regarding Tata investing in hostile countries like bangladesh and iran(please check the facts..its nothing but the truth.)Ratan tata complained several times he is not getting fair deal with Indian politicians and burecrocy(he is finding it difficult to corrupt them...like the days of license Kota raj...when he even laid railway tracks to his factories).Its also truth TATA managment will be handed over to their europian kin after ratan TATA.I never said they are cruel for India.All i said is they are slowly taking the wealth they earned in India to abroad.Murthy and Azim PREMJI are the totally different cases.I welcome Indian companies accuring foreign companies,but they should serve the Indian intersts first!! that it!!
RE:its a conspirasy!!
by Arijit Ghosh on Feb 09, 2007 03:56 AM Permalink
Anil, you sound like Mamata Banerjee. Are you as ridiculous in real life as well?
RE:RE:its a conspirasy!!
by Anil Kumar on Feb 09, 2007 04:21 AM Permalink
Arijit,before coming to conclusions on my point of view give me your detailed point of view on the points i mentioned on TATA !!just he is investing in a small project in bengal as a strategic plan to get support of bengal communists to dicth India doesn%u2019t justify you(the same communista are opposing SEZ'S in Andhra)so different strokes for different folks??
Every thing looks like ridiculous when one can't think beyond their boundaries and selfishness! The nation comes first before Bengal or any other state my dear.
I am neither a pilot or an avionics expert but here are my thoughts regarding this matter and I was hoping to get some feedback and start a debate. 1. Considering that the US airforce hasn't used the F-16 for about 4 years and that even the air national guard is in the process of retiring these aircraft from service leads me to believe that it is a fairly outdated Jet.
2. The F-18 Super Hornets (albeit great jets) cost about $10 million more than Su-30s. Considering our pilots have a longer history with Russian systems I wonder if it's a good idea to introduce a brand new platform into the IAF. Maybe someone with flight experience could shed some light on the training process related difficulties regarding this matter. I have always felt that the pilot's competency out weighed the capabilities of the machine itself. The example of the Israeli pilots running circles around the more superior arab Migs in the 67,72 and 81 wars comes to mind. 3. We already have manufacturing licenses for Russian systems. Why aren't we using those to create indigenous versions suited to our needs like the way the Israelis have done with the F-15s and F-16s?
4. I think HAL needs a swift kick in the pants. They have been faltering on their LCA program especially due to the Kaveri debacle and haven't even started with the MCA program. IMHO the aeronautical industry needs to be de-centralized and privatized. I bet there would be atleast 4-5 companies that would spring up creating a more competitive environment resulting in better products. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy about all the work HAL has done and the valuable lessons this process has brought about, I just think the Indian Aeronautical complex could be a lot more efficient and cutting edge like all the other high tech private sector players.
Lastly, I can't believe people are saying that the F-16 fighting falcons or the F18 super hornets are comparable to the F-22 Raptor. The Raptor is about 3-4 generations ahead of the F-16. It has stealth capabilities and one hell of a missile arsenal, the fact that the USAF now wants to replace the raptors with the F-35 is simply mind boggling.. of course this will never be for sale as long as the US holds the lead on Stealth Technology.
RE:Lets get a debate started.
by apjunkmail on Feb 09, 2007 02:01 AM Permalink
India needs technology transfer not licensed assembly factored into the new planes they buy to replace the Mig21s. If they could run with Mig21s till now , I think whatever they get will stay for next 20 -25 years or so. However technology frog leap is needed, not incremental progress on whatever frontline fighters they get. It must incorporate stealth and all latest avionics. Off course no one will agree to technology transfer for that. I agree about involving companies like Tata to facilitate technology transfer with deadlines and disciplined operation in production. Patriotic factor kept in mind stringent rules are need to be developed to keep espionage . Stay away from Haliburton type super chor model like plague.
RE:RE:Lets get a debate started.
by Pankajkumar Raval on Feb 09, 2007 08:17 AM Permalink
You are absolutely right.When are capable to make Cryogenic engine,Param computer and many more why not a latest version of Indegenus fighter plane.I think that our aeronautical department should refer chapter "Yantrasarvasva" in Holybook "Bhrugusamhita".Any Aironautical concept May not be latest than it.Yes,question of breaking Mig-21 & loosing valuable properties in term of young Pilot,but it should be researched,Purchasing F-16 or F-18 is not a solution of technology upgradation.Yes,on Ratan TATA,no doubt he is Ratan of Bharat,who started to ruled over Britisher.
It is all about advanced avionics like ability to jam enemy radar and communications systems , while you attack their assets with satellite guided precise ammunitions even flying low at night. Ability to communicate and coordinate with other ground based and airborne assets like (AWACS). Ability to pickup and attack enemy fighters before they get into close or visual range (BVR) etc.. all integrated into a stable proven fighter aircraft. Dogfights are a thing of the past or very unlikely . In my opinion SU30MKI is good platform for deep strike , nuke delivery may be with Kh-55s etc.. but I think India is looking for 126 aircrafts to replace mig 21s so I think cheaper but modern is something India will go for.
RE:In modern combat aircraft
by Amit Mishra on Feb 09, 2007 09:27 AM Permalink
This is precisely the type of blunder that US had committed in making the F-4 Phantoms with limited dogfight capability & had paid dearly for it in the starting days of the Vietnam war. They had repeated the folly again when they ignored the WVR type missiles in favour of the BVRAAM ones. The result was that USSR leapfrogged ahed in 1986 with the uneiling of the Vympel R-73 the first of the fourth generation WVRAAM missile the west had to work hard with only the Israelis unveiling the Python in 1994. theb US & European companies are barely catching up. In a simulation run by the US agencies on their Cray computers, Su-27/30s & the Mig-29s( those equipped with Vympel R-73s & thrust-vectoring engines) could easily shoot down F-15s, F-16s & F-18s!!! So much so for the US tech!!! The other folly in buying US aircraft would be that we would have to ask for their permission in going to war!!! Morever Pakistani pilots having a 20 yr lead in using the US tech F-16s would have a trick or two more up their sleeve!!!
RE:This is Ratan Tata Speaking !!!
by Pavan C. Joshi on Feb 09, 2007 02:27 AM Permalink
Oooops...(Who published my other name...I see dirrrty work of 'The Foreign Hand' :)
Someone says herein Lockhed Martin is almost bankrupt. Fact - not true re. JSF/F-35 contract, they are booming! LM won this K over others.
This is an overall $ 200 Billion Plus project! Could become biggest aerospace Co. in the world, so makes sense for Tata to oblige...it would be noive to think that in business, Tata can 'just take a piggy-back joyride' with 0 socio-politico-economic implications.
My former Co. was in race for JSF sub-K. While MXi go that, I remain associated with aerospace vertical.
