Mr. Ram Kelkar, It seems that you believe in the law of jungle for human kind also. It is the merit of a lion which entitles him to devour another animal of his choice. You want to apply the same principle for the citizens of India. Dont you think humans are different? Dont you think that Hindu society is divided into various castes and these castes are not a matter of choice for anybody? You are born into it. Your movements in the society are largely influenced by your caste. The tragedy is that caste is not just a matter of classifying the people into different groups. There is an Upper caste and there is a lower caste. So, how can you exclude the caste factor when you formulate laws for the society?
RE:clueless ministers
by Ankit on May 23, 2006 05:41 PM Permalink
Well i respect ur feeling...but do u think that just by providing quotas in higher education will lead them on a path of social justice....During 4 years of my Engg i had seen lot of OBC ,SC/ST students who are not able to handle the amount of pressure and the load of technical studies. Its not because they are poor, not bcoz Indian govn is not doing justice to them, not because of ill treatment as u say so ,done by upper caste people towards them but its just a carelessness towards studies .If 10 OBCs are only 1 OBC puts his real interest. Others are actually eating up a seat of general category student which I feel is unfair both from a economic growth as we get less skilled labour ...as well as an injustice to that student .And the reservation system given a easy way ...then tomo same people will ask for relaxation in marking, less work in private sector....i think that will not be acceptable at any cost .Instead of reservation u shud be more creative and shud ask for free secondary education abt ur Childs basic studies. This way he wnt have to ask for reservation while getting into Higher Studies ..
RE:clueless ministers
by kaushik on May 23, 2006 07:38 PM Permalink
I am deeply hurt by the way this quota issue has shaped up into a clash between upper castes and backward castes.When I think of the quota some questions come to my mind and I want to share them with all: 1>The facts on whose basis the OBCs are identified-are they uptodate or is coming from a few decades ago's report? 2>Do they make any kind of such reports for other castes? 3>How an OBC who struggles all day to feed himself and family can benifit from this? 4>How much did the previous mandal commision helped the BCs and what were its pitfalls.Did the centre gave any reports on this? I would be happy if anybody could give me the answers.
We get to read all one sided stories. Satirical posts on forums about quota in Cricket and toilets prove further how irrational and apathetic some uppercaste people are to real issues. I read posts calling BCs beggars. Can we expect anything good to come out of such low thinking and sick minded evenif educated upper caste people ever? These are the real real backward caste of our society. These are mentally backward, selfish, casteist people who deserve expulsion from county. Most of them in their future will taunt, mistreat and insult their BC colleagues no matter what. Many of them will teach similar hatred to their children against BCs. Just goto districts nearby cities. News of BC students barred from going to schools and lowercast girls stripped and raped by uppercast goons are common. Without helping hand of quota system what chance weak BC people have against such biased people? The quota system has failed in last 50 yrs because there is so much hidden, subconscious and implicit bias against it. Upper class must note India historically and demographically equally belongs to lower caste as well. The upper caste outcry infact makes the case for quota system further stronger.
I crossed all the stages of education in my life. The reservation policy is so stupid. Let me try to put some analogy. 1). I read previous messages saying that the caste system was there for more than 1000 years, so the reservation should be there for another 1000 years. Do you guys have some sense. British ruled us for around 150 years. Why don't you guys turn around and say we rule british for 150 years. Are you guys out of your mind. 2). Earlier I know the so called SC-ST people were not let inside temple. But now it is not the case. Everybody is treated equal. For god-sake remove this reservation policy. Treat everybody equal in all walks of life. 3). All guys who say the reservation should exist answer my question. Q). If have some life threatening disease and you were to choose one doctor from a list of two(One guy who didn't score any thing but got into a medical college by being SC, and the other stood first and got into a the medical college.). These two came out as doctors. Merit student passed with flying colors in first attempt. But the SC candidate just passed after 10 years of medical college study. Whom do you chose?. Hell with reservation.
RE:Foolish Reservation policy
by MJ Xavier on May 24, 2006 04:52 PM Permalink
Dear Friend:
Please try to understand something. All those who make it to medical colleges (or institutions of higher learning) based on exam scores are not necssarily the best and those left behind are definitely not the worst. There is raw talent rotting outside the system due to lack of opportunities.
Ambedkar who wrote our constitution is an SC. There are excellent civil servants from SC/ST and OBC communities who have made it through the reservation system. Rememeber that our civil service is comparable to the best in the world.
Though I am an IIM alumni, I know of several of my less fortunate country cousins who are much more brighter/intelligent than me but could not make it because they were denied the opportunity. Let us not have the parochical view that the upper caste people are the best in the world. Talents are available in every caste and community. Let us create opportunities for every one to exhibit their talents and make India the most developed country in the world.
RE:Foolish Reservation policy
by v.m.jadhav on May 17, 2006 12:16 PM Permalink
I must thanks to agitating doctors as they are helping OBCs. As you know that OBCs do not know about their rights and about Mandal Commission. When doctors started their agitation. Most of freinds in OBCs started discussion about Mandal Commission and reservations. Thus knowledge about it spreading in OBCs. You are once again thanked for awakening the slipping giant.
A country's growth/development depends ultimately on increases in productivity. Productivity increases, in turn, come from merit based admissions/hiring.
The solution to past wrongs is not a new wrong. I couldn't care less what anyone's caste/religion is.
Spend more money on primary/secondary education in disadvantaged areas. Increase my tuition and provide means-tested tuition scholarships to the poor. Better solution, better outcome.
kudos to arjun singh for setting the nation on the path of liberation from hindutwa by mandalising it .the opposition by manuvadi meritwallas will be futile. high time they realised that and step aside and make way for the long oppressed
Dear Sir, When India is moving ahead economically with great leap,no one can understand these retrospective steps. This will definitely derail India in all aspects, economically, intellectually in the near-future. No where on earth we can see such ridiculous systems. We talk about increased investment from MNCs,while implementinmg reservations in the Private sector for education and jobs.No one would want to employ a person who is sub-standard.. When India is moving forward in the Private sector, the Government sector is trailing way behind - because none of the politicians have got the vision to improve India, when it comes to the point of scoring votes.Indians are shining in every corner of the world. Even if half of what is happening in the Western world happens in India in terms of improvement, then India will be top of the world in 5 years time...Many things which stops India from growing- Bribe, malpractice, lack of reliability, lack of political will, selfish politicians/government employees, etc,
I donot want to debate whether the quota system is right or wrong. One of your advice is really valuable, that is to strengthen primary and secondary education for "socially backward" sections so that they can compete at higher level. As you have referred (some one else must have termed) all the elite IIT IIM guys voice the very same solution. Well, thats good. But given their gifted brilliance, it would be just to say how to improve these levels of primary and secondary education. Any commoner with a peanut brain can critisize, but what differentiates between them and IITians is that IITians and IIM guys offer practical solutions, rather than mere critisism. At least thats what I believe.
On the other side, whether you admit it or not, as far as development concerned its always catching up for "backward sections" in India. I can prove it with stats if you want. While forgetting the face of it, this decision is more politically motivated rather than anything else. But thats how politics work in a pseudo democracy like India. I long back realized that these IITs, IIMs can't put an effort change politics in India. At least offer us sound solutions, not critisism.
