We are definitely not perfect. We have a long way to go. The check that one is healthy enough to tranform to a better India, is to be able to take on criticism and correct ourselves. Those idiots who shrink at the slightest criticism are the unhealthy lot not fit for transformation. These are the idiots who live in the world view that everything around them is perfect, hence incapable of transformation. This article points at our flaws let us take it as serious advice for the well being of the nation.
Dear friends, please stop finding flaws in the article. Instead, look at the positives in it. The author admires India for what it is. "Under similar circumstances, no other country would have made it like we did". "Movies are a unifying factor". "People accept multi language society". "Irrespective of Language, we are all Indian".
Now it's time to prove once more that everyone is wrong. We should strive and become a Super power much sooner than the predictions. It's in our hands.....
Ram Guha is a prime example of self-Hating (Hindu) Indian!
Its India's misfortune that people like him are now higging media.
There are tons and tons of (Hindu) Indian these days who study at Western Universities. HARDLY ANY ONE WILL AGREE WITH SELF-HATING POLEMIC OF RAM GUHA!
These are product of Nehruvian Era, which is dead.
RE:Ram Guha is a prime example of self-Hating (Hindu) Indian
by stav on Aug 28, 2007 09:33 AM Permalink
Let us give your narrowness a burial. Stupid people like you will take India to the gutters, because you are incapable of improving, as you cannot see your faults.
Re: Ram Guha is a prime example of self-Hating (Hindu) Indian
by Derek Obrian on Feb 09, 2012 02:16 PM Permalink
Guha ( a Tamil with a Bengali surname---- very strange indeed) did a BA in Economics from Delhi University followed by a Fellowship( Equivalent to PhD) in Forestry Management from IIM, Calcutta.
RE:Ram Guha is an Idiotic Congress stooge
by Sherlock Holmes on Aug 28, 2007 07:47 PM Permalink
Except most of the islamic countries every country in the world is secular and they do not seem to have a hindu majority there !
RE:Ram Guha is an Idiotic Congress stooge
by angshuman dutta on Aug 28, 2007 10:46 PM Permalink
Please tell me other than India which country is constitutionally secular? Please.
RE:Ram Guha is an Idiotic Congress stooge
by Manish Jha on Aug 29, 2007 10:11 PM Permalink
sir a lot of country...all the western country including US, UK , Chine, Russia, are secular. Turkey is secular. Japan is secular.
RE:Ram Guha is an Idiotic Congress stooge
by chaitanya s on Aug 31, 2007 02:23 AM Permalink
But how many have national leaders - Presidents, Prime Ministers, Chiefs of Army Staff - from the minority community?!
Re: RE:Ram Guha is an Idiotic Congress stooge
by Derek Obrian on Feb 09, 2012 02:19 PM Permalink
No, UK: Christian US: Christian China: Several approved religions Russia: Several approved religions Turkey: Muslim Japan: Shinto.
RE:You pay a bribe to get a passport?
by JM on Aug 28, 2007 11:20 PM Permalink
Did you bribe to get a passport that you were not entitled to get otherwise? OR did you a bribe because you were not given the passport on time (it depends on the office but normally it takes 3-4 months? Heck, it takes 4 months in the US to get a US passport unless you pay about $90 extra for premium processing!!!) OR did you pay a bribe to get a passport earlier than the scheduled time because you were late in applying OR dd you pay a bribe for your passport because you were not willing to wait in the line?
Also, did you bribe someone in the passport office? or an 'agent' or the police constable?
It is easy to say India is corrupt and this and that but it happens often that people fail to apply for a passport in advance or dont want to stand in the line or something like that. And then they blame India for being corrupt.
Im not blaming you Angshuman of doing anything wrong and maybe you bribed the passport officer because he was corrupt and would not give you a passport unless you bribed him but Im really interested in your story.
My contension is if you apply in advance and are willing to stand in the line and willing to wait for the time you are supposed to wait, then you do NOT need to bribe to get a passport. This is atleast true in Mumbai, Bangalore, Chennai offices. I have to concede, Im not sure about Orissa or Bihar and other parts of India.
Guha seemed to be quite neutral till he said `the Hindu right wing groups attacks on Muslims and Christians'. What a typical leftist historian he is?! India has been tormented by the Islamic terrorists for centuries and then by the Xtians in the form of Britishers. Even he is blind to the bombs that exploded (and some put off before exploding) recently. The congress zealots and self-made historians like Guha belong to pseudo-secularists. No country in the world claims to be so secular and it is stupid to hold on to the outdated philosophy. Look at Saudi Arabia... Can anyone even behave like a non-muslim there?? India will progress better if it can shed this non-sensical image and put strict laws to counter Islamists instead of appeasing them in the name of secularism. What the secularism tag and appeasement brings - only bombs..
RE:India will improve if it can get rid of the pseudo-secularism
by JM on Aug 28, 2007 05:03 AM Permalink
You are right Ram. I liked every part of this article except that he mentions "right wing Hindus" being the cause of failed secularism.
I was pretty disappointed that he fails to mention the pseudo-secularists and minority-appeasers who are a bigger cause of failure of secularism.
He seems to be blinded by personal bias..he is a 50-50 historian.
RE:India will improve if it can get rid of the pseudo-secularism
by Manish Jha on Aug 29, 2007 10:13 PM Permalink
We are not secular because of other. It is benefiting us that is why we are secular.
If one watches each and every article for discussion on rediff there is only ONE pattern. Negative, Negative, Negative. Interestingly East/West/North and South people are using a portal designed by engineers for a Company that is primarily owned by South Indians. Try to have this freedom of expression in China and fisrtly this kinds blog would not be allowed. And Secondly the rediff owners would have be jailed and also hanged till death...
When U criticize this article why don'y U guys articulate your solutions. What's the point is focusing on the facts which EVERYBODY knows. Why can't your saturated brains be INNOVATIVE and fresh with new thoughts NOW THAT YOUR BEELY'S are full and FOOD SEEMS TO BE NO PROBLEM for you guys. (Looks like too much food to me..)
Why DON'T u guys SCIENTIFICALLY analyze the state of poor affairs in your country. Then why don't U come up with scientific solutions. Yes your Hinglish democracy can be fixed with a fresh mentality.
Here is a thought for U guys. Try to analyze the CONCENTRATION OF POWER and try to divide it and solution will start flourishing. 1) Same person should not be allowed to get elected as PM/CM for more than 2 terms. 2) Police Commissioner should be elected by the people and NOT appointed by a politician.
These are my indigenous thought... Propagate them and trust me that should make the Politicians LOOSE their good night sleep. Especially if they can't control the Police Commissioner...
RE:Looks like Indians brains are made up of NEGATIVITISM
by Anil C on Aug 30, 2007 12:36 AM Permalink
the first suggestion is doable. and may be it should be. atleast it gives a chance for young blood and fresh ideas.
now the point about police commisioner is ridiculous. the commmisioner should have a qualification, and even now qualified people are made PC atleast on paper.
unfortunately the only unqualified people who have power in their hand are the politicians themselves. be it rabdi devi or mayavati ( there are many more men to just that i got these names too... and karunanidhi too a sly fox)....
It seems India is prodigious in producing crybaby intellectuals, whose claim to glory is just find defects with India, they are blinkered cant see good, cant remember good of India.
What goes un-answered by them is the true greatness of India which every one can see namely:
1> USA took more than 100 years to become developed; have we done badly in 60 years? With 30% of NASA & Silicon valley composed of Indians 2> India has instilled fears in developed countries through low cost high skilled work force. 3> Yes we Indians often do banter with each other even give galis as Tamils, Punjabis, Bengalis....... but unlike Europeans we never fought World Wars not even riots, our unity is from heart not forced
4> Unlike China where too millions are starving but bad news is hidden by Govt, here we have vibrant media which repors even a sneeze. Jessika Lal got her justice due public outcry.
Only a fool can compare India with USA or Europe who are 300 yrs plus old democracies while we are only 60 years.
And let it be clear that India is secular democracy due to choice of majority Hindus not due to force compulsion from minorities, but this stupid book worm does not seem to live in real world.
RE:GUHA IS A CRYBABY INDIAN INTELLECTUAL
by JM on Aug 28, 2007 05:08 AM Permalink
: Prashant Chakravarty, the west is ahead of us in most ways because they dont mind learning from others.
If India has to develop, we need to give up this ego and admit that we have a lot to learn from everyone.
Reg. "Only a fool can compare India with USA or Europe who are 300 yrs plus old democracies while we are only 60 years." if we have to develop, we have to compare with countries who are great.
If you want to improve in a particular field, compare yourself with the greatest.
Would you have been happier if India was compared to crappy countries rather than USA/Europe? I would have felt it is an insult not to compare India with USA/Europe?
RE:RE:GUHA IS A CRYBABY INDIAN INTELLECTUAL
by jay krishnan on Aug 28, 2007 10:47 AM Permalink
yes the west does learn from others. I will give them that. But they are adept at covering up the sources and putting their own brand name on it and fopping off as one more feather in their caps. They are dishonest in that respect. Many a thing that they have got inspiration from the wisdom of the east, they have conviniently masked and covered it to suit their appeasement of their own people. People like the inane author here can't see all the great things that India gave freely to the world for the past several thousands of years. In those days, greeks and other westerners from europe got all science and technology from India but transmitted through arabs. How else would they have gotten anything in those days ? And US is just a byproduct of that europe.
Inept and slavish self haters ( Mr. Guha you are justified in hating yourself but please don't try and arrogate your own slavish and despicable nature on the rest of us Indians who , unlike you, are proud of who we are. If you have constructive criticizm blended hand in hand alongside giving credit where it is due < which you have failed to do > then perhaps that's the way to bring about change. And do some soul searching and ask yourself. Are you writing this peice for the purpose of bringing about a positive change in Indians or is it aimed and geared for the sake of providing a feel good effect for the western audience who lap any such carping of others up owing to their own dismal record in treatment of humans.
RE:GUHA IS A CRYBABY INDIAN INTELLECTUAL
by JM on Aug 28, 2007 11:30 PM Permalink
: A thousand years back..million years back..whatever is bygone.
India was great and is still great!
But we need to provide 3 billion meals everyday to our population and what we did a thousand years back is not going to get these meals.
The sooner we open our eyes to reality, the better.
I work in a company now and I need to show results everyday. I cannot keep talking about the state-level rank I got in high school or even the good grades I got in Engg. That is yesterday. I need to show results today to feed myself tomorrow. The sooner I give up the hot-air anc concentrate on teh job in hand, the better it is for me!
RE:GUHA IS A CRYBABY INDIAN INTELLECTUAL
by JM on Aug 29, 2007 02:22 AM Permalink
: The "past torch for the present"? What if the past torch is impeding the present by filling our brains with hot-air? Since you have got personal with me, here goes..you seem to be from the older generation who sat in a govt. office in TN doing nothing just resting on the laurels of your "matric" and how great your father and uncles and how great your family history was.
Taj Mahal was built by labourers in conditions close to enslavement! Mr.Fossil, world has changed since then.
Nobody said throwing a few morsels of food is going to solve any problem and sure, it needs to be done in a sustained manner (thanks for quoting the irrelevant and the obvious). But what is the use of saying I was "great once upon a time" wasting time instead of saying "I need to improve, and improve constantly"
All Im saying is India is great, but lets not rest on history. Let us move forward and solve problems one by one. The first step to solving the problem is accepting that there is one.
It is gas-filled fools like you who have brought India to the condition where it is. Every time an Indian says "India needs to improve", idiots like you shoot back "India was great a thousand years back" wah!
History is important to learn lessons and correct them moving forward. You have twisted this by saying we need to rest (and laze) under the past glory forgetting the present and future.
Why is it mine and your problem to bring meals to Indians? You are indeed an idiot, I rest my case!
RE:GUHA IS A CRYBABY INDIAN INTELLECTUAL
by RamRamRam on Aug 27, 2007 05:12 PM Permalink
Prashant be cool. India will be the same even after 100 years. USA had great leaders who spent their life time to develop the country. The so called Leaders in India spent their life time on dividing people on Caste and Religion to maintain their vote bank. We cannot compare India with Europe or USA.
RE:GUHA IS A CRYBABY INDIAN INTELLECTUAL
by Anil C on Aug 30, 2007 12:37 AM Permalink
all ur fingers are not the same. all countries are not identical. different countries face different challenges.
RE:GUHA IS A CRYBABY INDIAN INTELLECTUAL
by ashish on Aug 27, 2007 10:06 PM Permalink
prashant stop dreamin if india was so much like the us and europe ur fellow indians wudnt be migrating in large numbers to get out of india,simple
RE:GUHA IS A CRYBABY INDIAN INTELLECTUAL
by shayantan on Aug 28, 2007 12:27 AM Permalink
DUDE ... HAVE YOU HEARD OF REVERSE BRAIN-DRAIN ... GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT ... I'M IN BOSTON AND HARVARD EDUCATED ... AND I'M GOING BACK
RE:GUHA IS A CRYBABY INDIAN INTELLECTUAL
by Sherlock Holmes on Aug 28, 2007 07:39 PM Permalink
I doubt if an harvard educated indian would have enough time to even browse through these rediff columns. This guy is harvard educated in his dreams !
RE:RE:GUHA IS A CRYBABY INDIAN INTELLECTUAL
by Anil C on Aug 30, 2007 12:41 AM Permalink
prashant.. what is soo much wrong in migrating. people move out in search of opportunities. if there is a chance to make money, a better livelihood then why shouldnt we do it. it is in the nature of life. this migration has been going on for ages now. doesnt have to do anything with the respect for the country.
a third rated historian is writing some often repeated comments, and we are taking him seriously. this is why the scholars of the world laugh at us... Guha is good only to write some journalistic articles about some forgotten and dead cricketer once in a while. dont even take him seriously...
Wrt the following text "True, even though our constitution guarantees secularism, the practise of secularism is often flawed. The Hindu-Muslim rights, for instance: the Hindu right wing groups attacks on Muslims and Christians are some of the example of the shortcomings of secularism. Yet, there are millions who still want India to be a secular society, and I believe they are in a majority."
Why does'nt he mention that there is a separate civil code, law and court for the Muslims in India. What kind of secularism is that. What about statements like "Minorities have first right over the nation's resources". What about reservations in every field? What about the Gujarat riot avenging squad trained in Pakistan? What about government funds for Haj pilgrimage? What about mullahs prescribing an entire community about whom to vote before the election and using a community as a vote bank? What about the mass conversions going on in many states with the promise of money? These things are no secrets and these are the things which come in the way of true secularism. All the (right wing) riots are reactions to these and they find sympathizers because of the above mentioned facts. Talk about these. Dont' be a pseudo sec. We've enough of them. When you tackle these, then you'll find that there'll be no takers for somebody proposing to construct a mandir somewhere. Jai Hind
RE:Well, gimme a break
by observer on Aug 27, 2007 03:46 PM Permalink
if you do so you are branded as as an RSS sympathiser no matter how right you are. left dominated thinkers and historians are a bane India
