Instead of asking question on validity of reservation for SC/ST ,could you ever ask some questions like these; 1.why only particular castes have swayed hold over economics,politics and religion for more than centuries? 2.Why untold hold of few castes is never open for discussion and a mere few percentage of reservation that only on government seats is matter of discussion? 3.Why not we discuss on unofficial reservation which prevails over many matters of importance like religion and society?
For most Indians(Read Upper Caste especially) casteism means Reservation.The cause and effect of such a policy is always ignored.
People who have access to message boards in Rediff are generally metrocentric and would not have had a first hand experience with casteism.They see equality in buses, trains, shopping malls and schools and believe Casteism is a vestige of the past.
I am a Dalit myself and not the kind you might visualise in your thoughts-Poor,badly dressed, illiterate etc.I hold academic degrees and drive a CRV and take luxury cruises every year.
True, I should not be a benefactor of reservations and I agree to that without any debates.But what is happening here is that I am an anomaly.My kind of Dalits constitute maybe 1% of all Dalits in India.
The rest as you all know are below the poverty line.Here are some statistics for thought-
80% of all dalits are landless labourers and survive on one meal a day.
A majority of these Dalits are bonded labourers.
The highest incidence of rapes are on dalit women etc
Now,I would daresay if any other community in India can exhibit such dismal statistics about themselves.Brahmins cleaning toilets in Delhi a one off case has raised so many eyebrows in the recent past !
The statistics are dismal not because we have low IQ's or are lazy like some people in the forum have pointed out.Opportunities, social deprivation,intense poverty, public humiliation etc.
RE:A point of View !
by purva chitale on Jun 04, 2007 03:01 PM Permalink
No one can stop a talented person. people below poverty line should be helped financially.but giving admissions and jobs at lower percentage is not justified.So i think reservation shold be banned.
RE:RE:A point of View !
by arun singh on Jun 04, 2007 03:15 PM Permalink
Drop the name CHITALE, if you dare! And then come and experience the life of SC/ST for a day. I am sure you will be a transformed person.
RE:A point of View !
by reliablemajor on Jun 04, 2007 03:02 PM Permalink
Coming to your very relevant point.What we say is that since you as a dalit has climbed social ladder then your dependenta should NOT be provided this reservation.Sushil kumar shinde is a dalit , mayawati is a dalit , there are thousands of meenas you will find in AI, IAS, IPS,Customs etc etc.Now how can one imagine to give reservations to their wards. rely
RE:A point of View !
by Indian on Jun 04, 2007 03:14 PM Permalink
Dear Suganth, I am happy that u have progressed. Please tell us will u make use of reservations for your kids if they get below average marks?
People are saying that we need to remove caste divide but if these people keep on asking for reservations the divide will grow further. Lot of people for whom reservation is intended dont even use it to educate themselves. There was an incident in mumbai some years back when a statue was vandalised(God knows by whom) and people started blocking Highways and burnings Cars of innocent people. Those idiots even tried to burn a LPG tanker and when police had to fire they were condemned by our stupid politicians. If the mob had succeded in igniting the tanker a whole lot of area would have been wiped out. Some old people and few very young boys died in the firing. Govt. compensated thier families. My question is what were those bunch of fools trying to achieve by setting fire to an LPG tanker. If someone vandalised the statue of thier leader where are they when crows make a mess of that same statue. Its hardly looked after other than once a year. Poeple like this dont need reservations because whatever reservations u gave them they are not going to get educated and use thier brains.
If you had been on that road in ur CRV these people would have burnt ur Car as well and what would say then??
It very easy to potray the injustice against lower caste but has the lower caste tried to come out of it. People like u are quite rare. M
RE:A point of View !
by bahmophet on Jun 04, 2007 03:10 PM Permalink
very candid one sir, dont u think that removing the creamy layer will help the really poor in the long run/ even this request was shot down by the champions of obc reservation like, ramdoss paswan and karunanidhi?another thing dr,AMBEDKAR NEVER WANTED RESERVATION IN PERPETUITY. THIS IS THE WAY WE HONOR HIM1
RE:RE:A point of View !
by arun singh on Jun 04, 2007 03:14 PM Permalink
Do not selectively quote Ambedkar. He said many other things also. What about them?
RE:A point of View !
by surinder dadwal on Jun 04, 2007 03:03 PM Permalink
agree..but is there any mechanism to filter out well off dalits like you? no there is NOT so ultimately its rich dalits like you who are getting the real benefits of the reservations and not the 80% needy who really deserve that.thanks!
RE:A point of View !
by arun singh on Jun 04, 2007 03:13 PM Permalink
If people like him start doing SOMETHING, suckers like you will have no place in India. It is in your own interest to offer them reservation, dude!
RE:RE:A point of View !
by Raghavendra Ravi on Jun 04, 2007 08:48 PM Permalink
Wish you all the best Suganth -- by all means you deserve everything you have got. But do not blame the brahmins and other upper castes for ALL the problems of dalits // most often it is he BCs and OBCs who strike terror in dalits . Also, please tell me - did you marry a dalit ?? did you help another dalit?? do you mix with dalits who are not well off??
If you do not , why should you expect "non dalits" to help your community// If you are helping dalits - wish you all the very best. R Raghavendra Ravi
RESERVATION IS COMPULSORY IN INDIA BECAUSE. IN OUR COUNTRY THERE ARE CRORES OF PEOPLE LIVING BELOW POVERTY LINE. IT IS VERY BAD SITUATION IN BACKWARD CLASSES EVEN THESE FAMILIES ARE NOT ABLE TO GET TWO TIMES FOOD. SO YOU THINK WHAT IS SITUATION OF EDUCATION, HOUSING, AND BASIC NEEDS. WE ARE ALREADY STEPPED OUT IN 21ST CENTURY. BUT THE SITUATION IN VILLAGES AND IN CITIES IS VERY WORST POOR PEOPLE UNABLE TO MANAGE TWO TIMES FOODS SO HOW THEY WILL SPEND MONEY FOR THEIR CHILDRENS EDUCATION AND CLOTHIG AND BASIC NEEDS.SO RESERVATION IS COMPULSORY IN INDIA.
A country like India needs reservations on the basis of a person's economic strength, if it has to have even a little chance to be the leading economy in the years to come!!
RE:Reserve Economics
by Indian on Jun 04, 2007 03:21 PM Permalink
well said. I hope the idiot politicians and ppl like Pragati who said YES RESERVATION IS COMPULSORY without putting the point the way u have understand this. Very short and precise message sir.
I am not sure if this question carries any more relevance. Unfortunately, reservation is here to stay and probably will get worse, as evdenced by the recent Gujjar incidents. The Gujjars are allegedly fightings for their 'rights' - thier right to be counted as an inferior clan. Because, to my mind, availing the reservation quota means downgrading yourself and accepting the fact that you are not good enough to compete with the real boys. It is like being served on a platter in this increasingly competitive world, where everything is performance based.
However, the Gujjars alone should not be blamed for this ailing disease, that inflicts the very roots of Indian society. The so called upper castes shold be blamed equally. They have allowed segregation of the society into distinct castes by not allowing inter-caste marriages and thus, creating a closed society. This phenomenon is actually no different to racism. Therefore, we have no right of accusing others as racist when we, Indians are the biggest racists in the world.
Is reservation justified? off course it is not. But can you prevent? Probably not.
What needs to be done is to allow the younger generation more freedom to marry among any caste or culture. This will lead to an open society, as they have in America. This will however, take atleast a century and I will certainly not be there to wittness it.
RE:justification of sc/st reservation
by Raghu Koteswaran on Jun 04, 2007 03:15 PM Permalink
I totally agree with your comments and u exactly voiced the million young generation guys view.We are wise enough to think in a long run but this dirty politician and our own Old juggernauts are causing the real problems for this century old casteism, racial discrmination and the reservation policy.
only its in our hands to rectify and Save india from all this Evil system, which is uprooting our country.
I want to ask those people who answered it 'yes'that why not reserve for all the caste who are below poverty line .in india nobody believes in 'jat-pat','uch-neech' then where ques. of reservation? should the person SC/ST on the bases of being ask for qouta could not allow for to come on public places.is there u see any place where the quota person alow not na,then why while ques of facility\talenet comes there they need quota.on the bases of SC/ST they become overwhime/assure to reach the place where the talent fails .bacially there is need to reserve the quota for the person req. edu,min. salary ,medical facitlity which can open there will & wish to be leterate & to show the talent but not for jobs if they are caliber then need to to raise the talent but not to give quota & take position of a talented person(either poor or midiunm class people)since rich don't req the quota the here question is of 'how to be financial growth. like the 'tod fod' all the kam dhanda will be chopat. so, stop doing this non-sense
RE:Reservations for SC/ST/NT are not justified
by arun singh on Jun 04, 2007 03:51 PM Permalink
in india nobody believes in 'jat-pat','uch-neech'. Are you really an Indian?
Just bcz of these resrevations, govt jobs are getting out of reach of general category ppl. I think these ST/SC ppl dont have skills to compete with general class.
I am dead against reservations on the basis of caste or religion. Instead of playing politics in the name of reservations for down trodden, the govt. must find come up with the welfare measure for all the down trodden irrespective of caste and religion and then only our country will remain united, otherwise the situation will be out of control and the day is not far off when one community people will need police escort to pass through other community's street.
