RE:RE:SC/ST quota by POONAM NEGI on Jun 06, 2007 02:58 AM  Permalink hi I guess it was a nice thought.I mean political leaders instead of giving political hue to this SC/ST issue should try to concenterate on the root cause and try to provide all kind of privileges to the underpreviliged people atleast at the preliminary level.But which political party has the time to pay heed to it.They just want to gain their vote bank. I guess it is upto us how we are going to react to this SC/ST issue. We need to think who is gaining out of it...........We are wise enough i guess to make a decision.....    Forward   |   Report abuse

RE:Does Rediff get paid when people write posts ???? by sreenivasulu pitla on Jun 05, 2007 11:35 PM  Permalink To add some more to your comment, there is no national debate going on regarding SC/ST reservation. No new bill coming up on parlament floor for voting regarding SC/ST reservation either. It was given in constitution on to bring socially deprived people into mainstream, and there was never a national debate on this. There was issue regarding OBC reservations and rediff has already posted so many articles and got tons of comments on that. Is rediff keep on licking this issue because more people are actively commenting on this issue? As you said at the end of the day votes rule in democracy, not the so called elite people who are all commenting against reservations in these comments. Even if people who are opposing the reservations gets elected they will make their minds up for pro reservation after realising the vote potential of the masses. One has to realise votes does matter in democracy and that is all democracy about for the people by the people, not for the so called "educated" people who are posting endless comments against reservations.    Forward   |   Report abuse
RE:Does Rediff get paid when people write posts ???? by crazyforsense on Jun 06, 2007 02:30 AM  Permalink @BostonPunekar..well said I bet Rediff must be getting paid or some such TRP ratings are there. The funny part is they ask as if they are going to do something about it. So Rediff....here you go....this is the answer. RESERVATIONS ON ECONOMIC NEED ALONE....AND THAT TOO LIMIT IT TO 20% OR SOME SUCH NUMBER. IT IS ABOUT TIME PEOPLE STARTED WORKING HARD AND GETTING THEIR SEATS. GIVE THEM THE MONEY IF NEEDED.    Forward   |   Report abuse

RE:SC/ST Quota by on Jun 05, 2007 10:21 PM  Permalink I definitely believe that the SC/ST quota is more of a political vote bank issue rather than a solution to help the under privileged. I think time and again people have come forward to say that the best way to help the under privileged or the low income group would be to reserve seats based on the income level of the family. Granted there are issues with this approach.viz: 1) Not everyone files taxes. So it will be difficult to grant someone a reservation without any proof of income. I think the solution is at the grass root level. The government should propose a rule whereby the companies that employ daily wage laborers are required to maintain documentation regarding the wages they pay. In doing so, when the laborer wants to admit his son in an educational institution, all he needs to do is submit a letter from the employer as verification. Granted there will be incidents of misuse of this rule. But if the government is really interested in resolving this issue, they should have a team of officials who work closely with the Corporate Income tax department in order to identify companies with large cash wage expenses and audit their payroll register. Regarding farmers, the information/ verification regarding their income can be obtained either through the panchayat, farmer's bank where they have applied for loans or from the Government and Private Agencies who buy the produce from these farmers. This will greatly help the needy rather than helping the politicians maint    Forward   |   Report abuse
RE:RE:SC/ST Quota by on Jun 05, 2007 10:23 PM  Permalink RAGHAV I definitely believe that the SC/ST quota is more of a political vote bank issue rather than a solution to help the under privileged. I think time and again people have come forward to say that the best way to help the under privileged or the low income group would be to reserve seats based on the income level of the family. Granted there are issues with this approach.viz: 1) Not everyone files taxes. So it will be difficult to grant someone a reservation without any proof of income. I think the solution is at the grass root level. The government should propose a rule whereby the companies that employ daily wage laborers are required to maintain documentation regarding the wages they pay. In doing so, when the laborer wants to admit his son in an educational institution, all he needs to do is submit a letter from the employer as verification. Granted there will be incidents of misuse of this rule. But if the government is really interested in resolving this issue, they should have a team of officials who work closely with the Corporate Income tax department in order to identify companies with large cash wage expenses and audit their payroll register. Regarding farmers, the information/ verification regarding their income can be obtained either through the panchayat, farmer's bank where they have applied for loans or from the Government and Private Agencies who buy the produce from these farmers. This will greatly help the needy rather than helping the politic    Forward   |   Report abuse

RE:Ideas... by pravin wankhade on Jun 05, 2007 08:54 PM  Permalink For Point 1. :---> What if parents themselves not educated ?? For Point 2. :---> From last 50 years (we r running our govt from last 50 years) this has not been happened. Most of the kids from well settled family goes to the private schools. What abt those who have not even have enough amt of money to feed there kids can dream to go to convents.....?? [90% backwards are economically poor and 5-10% open categories are economically poor the difference is huge...here u can say that there is need for reservation] For Point 3. :--> most of the backward students not even reach high school level, those who reach upto high school have so many responsibilities towards there family...for a matured guy studying in high school will never like his mother washing plates at someones home for mearly 200 bugs. For point 4. :----> this point dosent come in to picture if you consider point 3. still if some one makes it, there are many scenarios where u hv to mentally prepared urself for studies keeping aside the issues of family... For point 5. :----> This is very ideal scenario which can never be practically possible in India. For point 6. :----> You decide on it    Forward   |   Report abuse
RE:Ideas... by KT on Jun 05, 2007 09:10 PM  Permalink Pravin, Thanks for ur questions.. For Point 1. :---> What if parents themselves not educated ?? The govt. has to enforce school education, that is why I said, education shud be made 'mandatory' For Point 2. :---> From last 50 years (we r running our govt from last 50 years) this has not been happened. Most of the kids from well settled family goes to the private schools. What abt those who have not even have enough amt of money to feed there kids can dream to go to convents.....?? [90% backwards are economically poor and 5-10% open categories are economically poor the difference is huge...here u can say that there is need for reservation] Govt. has failed for the past 50 odd years, agreed, does it mean, it would not be done in the coming years? Private schools have better infrastructure, govt. schools need not aim for that level in terms of facilities, but can focus on quality education. For Point 3. :--> most of the backward students not even reach high school level, those who reach upto high school have so many responsibilities towards there family...for a matured guy studying in high school will never like his mother washing plates at someones home for mearly 200 bugs. dont mind me correcting u..but itz not 'bugs' it is 'bucks'..anywayz..my response is as under. I agree about responsibilites, but, if they are aware that they'd make letz say few hundred Rs/mo with school education, where as they can make thousands with a graduate degree (whil    Forward   |   Report abuse
RE:RE:Ideas... by KT on Jun 05, 2007 09:16 PM  Permalink Sorry...message got truncated...coz of its character length limitation.. anywayz...herez the remaining part of the message.. I agree about responsibilites, but, if they are aware that they'd make letz say few hundred Rs/mo with school education, where as they can make thousands with a graduate degree (while getting financial aid and working part time during school), would u still say, ppl wud not go for further education? For point 4. :----> this point dosent come in to picture if you consider point 3. still if some one makes it, there are many scenarios where u hv to mentally prepared urself for studies keeping aside the issues of family... I answered for Point 3, the same thing applies here. For point 5. :----> This is very ideal scenario which can never be practically possible in India. If the govt takes up initiatives like these, would the citizens not be willing to pay more taxes? and would the industry not support such an initiative? For point 6. :----> You decide on it All ur questions have been answered, the ball is in ur court.    Forward   |   Report abuse
RE:Ideas... by Mukesh Garg on Jun 05, 2007 11:07 PM  Permalink Friends, very good points of discussion. In addition to the above mentioned by KT, I would like to add 1 thing. Practically, it won't be possible, for decades to come, to remove reservation completely. Having said that, if you look at current scenerio, lots of children of creamy layer do take advantage of the reservation policy. Now, who's loss is this? Its not a general category loss, coz their seats are fixed. Its the loss of poor people belonging to SC/ST/OBCs. Reservation policy, which was created for the benefit of those poor, actually benefits the creamy layer most. So, people need to understand that when we oppose creamy layer reservation, its for the benefit of Only and Only poor SC/ST/OBCs. So, till the time reservation remains in place, creamy layer must be excluded from it. Also, when creamy layer is excluded from reservation, then only politicians will take steps of real upliftment of poor. Until then, politicians and bureacrats will not take any such steps, coz they need to show that their caste is backward, so that their children can get benefits of reservation.    Forward   |   Report abuse
RE:RE:Ideas... by Sarath Chandra on Jun 05, 2007 09:07 PM  Permalink I think anything can be possible anywhere if we have a clear plan and work towards it. Difficult? yes. Impossible? Most certainly not.    Forward   |   Report abuse
RE:Ideas... by Sarath Chandra on Jun 05, 2007 08:39 PM  Permalink Good plan..now we'll have to wait for the implementation. And how do we go about things till this plan gets implemented?    Forward   |   Report abuse
RE:RE:Ideas... by KT on Jun 05, 2007 08:50 PM  Permalink Sharath, We should just think long term, if we want results in the immediate future, the communal harmony would be disturbed. Assuming govt takes 2 years to get the infrastructure in place and then they make school education mandatory right away, we are looking at close to 12 years for the fresh breed of 'Equally Intellect and Aware' (EIA) to get out of schools. The 'so called' upper castes have been 'suffering/ feeling discriminated' for 60 years now, do u think they wud mind if it is just for the next 12 years?    Forward   |   Report abuse
RE:Ideas... by Sarath Chandra on Jun 05, 2007 09:04 PM  Permalink KT, I respect your vision. I did not come across many people who understand immediate changes ("revolutions" in general terms) cause great discomfort and loss. Most people decide what is right and want it implemented instantaneously. That causes mostly injustice and doesn't serve the purpose. The best way to implement an idea in my view is to lead by personal example and talk about the idea in whatever interactions an individual has. Thanks for giving your views and hope to see you around.    Forward   |   Report abuse
RE:RE:Ideas... by KT on Jun 05, 2007 09:22 PM  Permalink Sharath, I agree with what u say, wud certainly hope to see u around.    Forward   |   Report abuse

RE:Who is enjoying reservation?????? by Vikas Bhatt on Jun 06, 2007 10:59 AM  Permalink So are you suggesting that like Tamil Nadu there should be blind reservation as per statistics and that there should be no room for merit and hardworkin g categories? Then why ahev schools and colleges and stress on quality education? Might as well close the schools and colleges and distribute degrees to everyone? You really think that in medicine and mechanical science, reservations throw out highly skileld doctors and engineers? Also have you considered the plight of so many open category studenst who not only have no hope of availing vacant reserved seats but also have to compete with SC and OBC students in the open category as well. In that case make a rule that no OBC/SC/ST student can be admited in the general category on merit. Lets see if reservations and merit diluted degrees will make you a CEO in Infosys or the world's best neuro surgeon mate. Going by your post, it seems you would be most happy if 100% reservation was implemented. Then who would give jobs to so many people with suspect educational skills and capabilities. People don't give out jobs for free without merit like Government gives out degrees under reservation. And what do Reserved people end up doing in the end? Would you want your own child tomorrow to be a merit holder who can conquer the world or a disadvantaged dependent on Government for everything in life confined to work as a clerk in some sarkari daftar indulging in wholesome corruption?    Forward   |   Report abuse
RE:Who is enjoying reservation?????? by Sarath Chandra on Jun 05, 2007 07:21 PM  Permalink Very informative. Can you suggest a place where we can find these statistics? I would also like to point out that I think in most cases all the unfilled seats in reservation category are open to others. It is a pity that the reserved category seats are not even filling up.    Forward   |   Report abuse
RE:Who is enjoying reservation?????? by vijay ram on Jun 06, 2007 08:28 AM  Permalink Praveen, 26% reservations for OBC does not mean only 26% of the students are OBC. It means that AT LEAST 26% are OBC. In TN, there is 69% reservation. It does not mean Brahmins have a 31% quota! As a matter of fact, students who are classified as "BC" are in no way unequal to brahmins in performance. Many many of them get in through the open quota, and ultimately the proportion of Brahmin students who get in is less than their proportion in the general population. Does this mean there should be quote for brahmins now?    Forward   |   Report abuse

RE:Think on it.......... by munish sharma on Jun 05, 2007 07:53 PM  Permalink I am not against reservations but who should be eligible is a vexing issue. I dont think the current rule is just. I see SC engineer's, doctors kids getting into engineering and medical colleges and the people for whom this reservation was meant to be are still at the same level. At least some justice should be there. Why should an Engineer, Doctor or Distt. Collector's kid be eligible for reservation? I will support reservations if someone can answer this question. Otherwise it is flawed and shou;ld be scrapped immediately.    Forward   |   Report abuse
RE:Think on it.......... by vijay ram on Jun 06, 2007 08:33 AM  Permalink >> Reservation is doing some good, at least few are gaining some benefits let them get atleast that. I agree. I myself know of many dalit students from poor families who did not stand a chance without reservations. However, exactly because it is so important for these weaker sections, it should not be diluted and made controversial by extending it to rich middle class castes who really dont have any case for getting reservations. Expanding reservations beyond the group that needs it badly will make it contoversial and jeopardise its very existance. The whole debate is caste as SC and BCs fighting against FCs for their right. Infact, the truth is that it is the entrenched middle class in India which is playing off SCs against FCs and cornering a lions share of the reservations, even though there is nothing in their economic or historical situation that entitiles them to reservations. Mayawati is right, and she is the wave of the future.    Forward   |   Report abuse