Brahmins may shout the lungs out, but the fact remains that there intelligence levels are just average. Look at the annual World Programmers Contest, no indian has qualified in it so far although they are competing in these contests every year. the participants are mainly from IITs and you know most IITians are brahmins.
RE:SC/ST
by san man on Jun 06, 2007 05:25 AM Permalink
Time for a separate state. There's no reason why honest people and crooks have to live together. Honest people can live in one state, and Pravin Gupta and his fellow crooks can live in their own state. No point in honest people and crooks forcing themselves to live together. The crooks will always argue crookedly. The way to solve the argument is to live in separate states. Then Pravin and his crooks can award each other quotas all day long. They can take the stupidest and most illiterate and most corrupt people, and can elect them as leaders who can prey upon them more. Meanwhile, the rest of us honest people can live separately, electing honest leaders.
RE:SC/ST
by on Jun 06, 2007 09:46 AM Permalink
People in the SC/ST categories are given a good opportunity by providing the Reservation. Once a person becomes IAS officer then will he give up asking for reservation for his kids saying his kids are in better situation compared to a middle class family.
The answer will be a BIG NO.
So in these cases we should tag the people getting jobs based on reservations after first generation benefit holders.
Like
Mr. MAX, B.TECH, IAS(SC QUOTA) - If he gets the IAS job based on SC QUOTA and if his parents has benefitted by SC Reservation.
Though this sounds like teasing if this is made a rule we can see many SC/ST/BC's opting for no reservation atleast in the second generation- Giving a chance for the real people in need of the reservation. Thus helping in the social equality.
RE:SC/ST
by vijay ram on Jun 06, 2007 08:09 AM Permalink
Brahmins are probably no more smart or stupid as a group than any other group. So what exactly does that have to do with quotas? Are you saying that Quotas should not exist because brahmins are not in fact forward caste? If so, I think we can come to an agreement.
To promote people in the lower financial and social circles to main stream, what we and the Govt need to do. It requires tremendous amount of money and work. Land reforms must be executed the way it was executed in Kerala in 1958. Then land shall be distributed among millions of poor and backward people. Govt should run special schools to bring up the confidence in backward kids who are deprived of opportunities even daily bread.
If Govt and other people who possesses limit less land can do all what is needed to upbring about 70-80% of people of India, there is no need of any reservation. Govt put forth reservation as an alternative to the bigger work and to get mass votes.
Otherwise, reservation itself is a degrading thing. The people who uses reservation will never feel self-esteem. People may object in that. But think about a tomorrow where there is no division based on something one has no control on, the birth to any specific caste. In order that to come, the Govt and everyone concerned should work together. Blaming eachother in the name of reservation is no use and it is over discussed. The real solution needs everyone's effort.
RE:RE:Reservation is only a pretext
by on Jun 06, 2007 09:47 AM Permalink
People in the SC/ST categories are given a good opportunity by providing the Reservation. Once a person becomes IAS officer then will he give up asking for reservation for his kids saying his kids are in better situation compared to a middle class family.
The answer will be a BIG NO.
So in these cases we should tag the people getting jobs based on reservations after first generation benefit holders.
Like
Mr. MAX, B.TECH, IAS(SC QUOTA) - If he gets the IAS job based on SC QUOTA and if his parents has benefitted by SC Reservation.
Though this sounds like teasing if this is made a rule we can see many SC/ST/BC's opting for no reservation atleast in the second generation- Giving a chance for the real people in need of the reservation. Thus helping in the social equality.
Indian Constitution was drafted based on simple logic of providing opportunities to SC / ST to get an atmosphere where they can get equal opportunity compared to other people. But, self centred politicians converted this a holy cow in the excercise of winning mass votes. Fundamentals were fogotten for ever. Logically, first generation after independance got VIP treatment to bring them at par with rest of the Indians. This temperary provision has no relevance around 15-20 years after independence.
RE:Indian Constitution
by on Jun 06, 2007 07:45 AM Permalink
200 years of inequality cannot be set righ tin 15-20 years. Just to make the playing filed level, we need reservations .Dont we have handicap in races ?
RE:Indian Constitution
by vijay ram on Jun 06, 2007 08:12 AM Permalink
Sure, a dalit student whose parents are day laborers has every right to reservation and help from the state. But if it had stayed there, there would be no controversy.
The problem is with well of entrenched middle class hogging all the benefits in the name of the "poor dalit"
Why do you think dalits and brahmins are suddenly finding more things in common? It is happening because people are not stupid.
RE:Indian Constitution
by on Jun 06, 2007 09:48 AM Permalink
People in the SC/ST categories are given a good opportunity by providing the Reservation. Once a person becomes IAS officer then will he give up asking for reservation for his kids saying his kids are in better situation compared to a middle class family.
The answer will be a BIG NO.
So in these cases we should tag the people getting jobs based on reservations after first generation benefit holders.
Like
Mr. MAX, B.TECH, IAS(SC QUOTA) - If he gets the IAS job based on SC QUOTA and if his parents has benefitted by SC Reservation.
Though this sounds like teasing if this is made a rule we can see many SC/ST/BC's opting for no reservation atleast in the second generation- Giving a chance for the real people in need of the reservation. Thus helping in the social equality.
Like it or not reservations are here to stay. They will stay as long as caste based divisions remain in the society. What we must remember is that we live in a democratic society. If there is a substantial number of people who fall across a dividing line, they will alwasy have an opportunity to affect the political process. Their smaller numbers enable them to create an effective vote bank that no politician can ignore.
In the current scenario, the only way to beat reservations is to dilute the castes by intermarriages. Reservations will be obsoleted on their own.
RE:Why Argue? Does it matter?
by shashi kanth on Jun 06, 2007 12:25 PM Permalink
your message only says backward people will get the benefit so you want all the indians should become backward. that is the reason dalits will never change. they remain as dalits
RE:Why Argue? Does it matter?
by on Jun 06, 2007 09:50 AM Permalink
People in the SC/ST categories are given a good opportunity by providing the Reservation. Once a person becomes IAS officer then will he give up asking for reservation for his kids saying his kids are in better situation compared to a middle class family.
The answer will be a BIG NO.
So in these cases we should tag the people getting jobs based on reservations after first generation benefit holders.
Like
Mr. MAX, B.TECH, IAS(SC QUOTA) - If he gets the IAS job based on SC QUOTA and if his parents has benefitted by SC Reservation.
Though this sounds like teasing if this is made a rule we can see many SC/ST/BC's opting for no reservation atleast in the second generation- Giving a chance for the real people in need of the reservation. Thus helping in the social equality.
RE:Why Argue? Does it matter?
by san man on Jun 06, 2007 06:10 AM Permalink
People who feel their rights aren't being protected should come together and campaign for a Separate State, just like Jharkhand or Chattisgarh. A separate state will allow groups with irreconcilable differences to live happily away from each other, instead of living with social tensions. I want a divorce. These guys are cheating, so I want a divorce. Now.
ONLY a handicapped person needs reservation, those who feel they should get reservations just on the basis oc caste, go ahead you handicaps go and eat the fruits of reservations.
I support reservation for SC/ST and OBC to some extent. My logic for the same are as under:-
1. Even in higher education there are seats reversed for NRI, Management quouta and foreigner.Ã%u0192â%u20AC%u0161 Why so ??? Why??? this advantage to rich people??? Just think about a situation you and your friend studied in the same class both of you belong to upper cast. He scored less marks than you always. But can be sponsored by his NRI brother or family members and may get a seat in medical, engineering or management at that timeÃ%u0192â%u20AC%u0161 you don't feel cheated. Your friendÃ%u0192â%u20AC%u0161 has gotÃ%u0192â%u20AC%u0161 admissionÃ%u0192â%u20AC%u0161 due to money.Ã%u0192â%u20AC%u0161 Nobody has made any hue and cry on this Why?
2. Since Mahabharata period educaiton was reserved for upper cast only. Was itÃ%u0192â%u20AC%u0161 not a descrimination? Has any religious guru raised any issue on this. Eklvya has to give his thumb as a price of his siksha.
Its not the lower cast who started the reservation.Ã%u0192â%u20AC%u0161 Since the beginning if all of them have been treated equally there have been no need for the reservation today. Can anybody repy why only upper cast people can have access to all the gurukul siksha in the past. Why ?????Ã%u0192â%u20AC%u0161 ....Why.????
So if lower cast people are getting their due why there is so hue and cry????
RE:I support reservation for SC/ST and OBC to some extent.
by Sonu on Jun 06, 2007 03:31 AM Permalink
1. Even in higher education there are seats reversed for NRI,
>> The seats are reserved NOT to make some more money, the seats are reserved to maintain diversity in class. when you get people from diverse cultures they do contribute a lot to over all growth of class.
2. Since Mahabharata period educaiton was reserved for upper cast only
>> On one hand "pseudo seculars" say that the Mahabharata is epic, its NOT truth, but when they want to argue about reservations they say even from Mahabharata times these people were denied education. any ways... what do you want now? you want to give them reservations till next mahabharata?
LEt me tell you something, I am a person whose Grandpa came to modern india from undevided india, my grand pa dint have any money. he started from ZERO. and with no RESERVATIONS.
still we have engineers, doctors and lawyers in my family. we all got educated despite all these conditions on top of that RESERVATIONS.
and those people who were still staying in the same place, same city they could not grow their status despite having a crutches of reservations.
Any ways....go ahead give more crutches to handicapped ( read those who need reservations) ones.
RE:I support reservation for SC/ST and OBC to some extent.
by on Jun 06, 2007 09:50 AM Permalink
People in the SC/ST categories are given a good opportunity by providing the Reservation. Once a person becomes IAS officer then will he give up asking for reservation for his kids saying his kids are in better situation compared to a middle class family.
The answer will be a BIG NO.
So in these cases we should tag the people getting jobs based on reservations after first generation benefit holders.
Like
Mr. MAX, B.TECH, IAS(SC QUOTA) - If he gets the IAS job based on SC QUOTA and if his parents has benefitted by SC Reservation.
Though this sounds like teasing if this is made a rule we can see many SC/ST/BC's opting for no reservation atleast in the second generation- Giving a chance for the real people in need of the reservation. Thus helping in the social equality.
RE:I support reservation for SC/ST and OBC to some extent.
by amar on Jun 06, 2007 04:27 AM Permalink
@chappan Your supported for reservations based on the points you mentioned seems more like revenge. In the current society reservations based on the caste does not help except politicians. Rich people (FC/BC/ST/SC) have more access to facilities than Poor people. Reservation based on caste help rich people in BC/ST/SC. I would rather say give more facilities to poor people and let them compete. In your example Eklvya was eliminated from competition. If he competed the situation it would be different.
My take: - Support reservations at the primary schooling level. Till the 12th standard. Build more schools. - Support some reservation for EBCs (Economically backward class) and people from rural area. - Do not spoon-feed people who've already made it past the 12th. They should fend for themselves. If they weren't good at this level, they won't be much better off later. - Reservations (not based on merit) at the post-graduate level (IITs, IIMs, AIIMS) is ridiculous -- no way this should be implemented. - For EBCs, provide monetary support at any level. (Making sure merit is not compromised) - Remove the concept of castes. In a learned society, no one is inferior or superior. We have to get rid of this. No one should ask for the castes. Unless it's for things like statistics that identify how a tribe has been evolving, moving around, etc.
Reservation is only leading to vacant seats. It is also responsible for creating professionals who are less competent. I am not saying that everyone who occupies a reserved seat is less competent but most of them are.
Providing financial aid and better facilities to the less privileged is a far better option I think.
Instead of fixing the quota, one can give education, coaching, refreshments etc free to economically weak class, and then let them compete. So it's like training them free of cost for a battle, but let them fight in the battle of life. Or they would just live to be parasites, who will not excel in anything. You would be placing them on the chairs of doctors and engineers, but they WOULDN'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO PERFORM AN OPERATION SUCCESSFULLY. And I am sure all ministers would run to the united states to get their operations done, as in india there would be quota doctors, who would be good for nothing.
RE:RE:RE:Stop the quota system
by on Jun 06, 2007 09:51 AM Permalink
People in the SC/ST categories are given a good opportunity by providing the Reservation. Once a person becomes IAS officer then will he give up asking for reservation for his kids saying his kids are in better situation compared to a middle class family.
The answer will be a BIG NO.
So in these cases we should tag the people getting jobs based on reservations after first generation benefit holders.
Like
Mr. MAX, B.TECH, IAS(SC QUOTA) - If he gets the IAS job based on SC QUOTA and if his parents has benefitted by SC Reservation.
Though this sounds like teasing if this is made a rule we can see many SC/ST/BC\'s opting for no reservation atleast in the second generation- Giving a chance for the real people in need of the reservation. Thus helping in the social equality.
Have just 1 QUOTA based on financial condition. Abolish the caste system else we will have to give it to ISLAM...Hindu population as such is depleting day by day... People get to your conscious and abolish once for all the caste system! Give reservation to the PEOPLE who really need it, not to the sons and daughter of Lalu or some other backward leaders....
See if you can make a difference...donate generously!!! Please%u2026%u2026%u2026%u2026%u2026%u2026%u2026%u2026..this is for your own good%u2026and humanity in general http://www.factusa.org/bdesh/teaser
