First of all, we don't know if Harbhajan denied using the "Monkey" word in sydney. So long, no media or none claim such thing. (Ancipating that, I guess Mr Panickar already stated his wife example to justify Harbhajan either ways.)
My point is, it is not upto the player of international stature for 2 decades to decide. No body want to ask Sachin if Harbhajan is innocent or not. That is for the judges to decide.
What you want to hear is a statement from Sachin saying "I was there. Bhajji did not use the "Monkey" word."
Any other statement from Sachin like he is innocent would not help. If Sachin simply says he did not hear Harbhajan say such words, that would be construed as he didn't pay proper attention to the conversation. He is not a good witness in that case and he shouldn't have been there in that trial.
RE:What Mr Panickar don't understand
by Onlooker on Jan 09, 2008 03:17 AM Permalink
Why the other party need proof when you don't deny the allegations made against you?
RE:RE:What Mr Panickar don't understand
by Kiran Vasudeva on Jan 09, 2008 04:13 AM Permalink
What Mr. Onlooker "don't" understand :-), Legal process is decided by principle of natural justice, where whether an evidence is reliable DOES come into play. So Sachin's stature is valid and must be considered from not just a moral, but a legal perspective. Don't understand you nimwit? Ask a good lawyer, he will explain WHY it is to you.
RE:What Mr Panickar don't understand
by mani sals on Jan 09, 2008 05:06 AM Permalink
Mr.Onlooker.. you sound like an atheist how keeps asking where is god even when hehas no control on his own doings. Are you really a fool hardy. If Prem does not have any reason to belive Bhajji called andrew 'MONKEY' what proof you have to claim it happened ? Just to refresh your fading memory ' Innocent until proven guilty' that is what your masters have also belived in. If Sachin's wondrs are not to be counted then whyshould anyone else be. On second thoughts you might never understand this sine you would not have an ability to reason correctly.
RE:What Mr Panickar don't understand
by Onlooker on Jan 09, 2008 06:12 AM Permalink
Mr sals, please look at my other posts for how they deal with word against word case. Or ask an attorney if you knew one.
panicker, no need to use words like "silly schoolgirl" or sh*it.. you are bringing disgrace to the journalistic standards.. the points can be put forward with more decent language, like everyone else is doing
RE:harsh language
by God on Jan 09, 2008 03:58 AM Permalink
aha.. here we have a standard journalist like nitn.. who really got offensed with the usage "Silly School girl"... he..he..
Matha feakker, shut the **ck up!!
he..he...he..... now am I bringing disgrace to the reader standards..?
RE:harsh language
by Onlooker on Jan 09, 2008 03:53 AM Permalink
The discriminatory nature in abuse is the issue. Not abuse itself. Abusive language should stop too if there was any.
The Orlando Magic and the NBA banned Magic fan Hooman Hamzehloui from attending any league games this season and revoked his season tickets after he directed a racial slur at Houston Rockets center Dikembe Mutombo Thursday night during a preseason game at TD Waterhouse Centre.
Hamzehloui, a Windermere resident and realtor, was ejected by security at TD Waterhouse Centre. He later conceded he called Mutombo a "monkey" and made monkey-like gestures.
He said he didn't know saying monkey could be construed as a racial slur. Mutombo had to be restrained during the game from going after Hamzehloui and wanted the league to take action.
Hamzehloui sent a letter of apology to Mutombo and offered $5,000 to a charity of his choice. But the league and the Magic wanted to set an example and put some teeth in the Fan Code of Conduct it instituted after the Detroit Pistons-Indiana Pacers brawl. Courtesy: Orlando Sentinel
RE:Macaca
by on Jan 09, 2008 08:20 AM Permalink
it has to be proven that Bhajji called Symonds a monkey - don't put the cart before the horse Mr. High and Mighty holier than thou Amar Kumar
RE:RE:Macaca
by Bob Hair on Jan 09, 2008 06:29 AM Permalink
Deep Indian The term "Monkey" has a history - it is a term rabid white supremacists in Europe use against black Africans, particularly in football. That fact is known and understood by the Indian players, and the pejorative and racial connotation is demonstrated in many of the posts on this site (which thankfully tend to be removed fairly quickly). Like everyone else, including Prem, I don't know what the process was and whether it was fair. (If it wasn't, that in itself will almost certainly result in the appeal being upheld). If Symonds (and Clarke?) actually heard the comment, it is not as a matter of legal definition hearsay and is direct evidence - it gets down to the strength of the evidence (the credibility of the witnesses is but one factor - what they actually say is just as significant). Let us hope that whatever the outcome, it is transparent and the process is demonstrably fair - and let's get back to cricket as a sport. Bob
RE:Macaca
by Onlooker on Jan 09, 2008 03:40 AM Permalink
Basically he lied then. Technically he need another one to confirm that too. Anyways now, what makes me think so now is his mother's reaction. If he was truly innocent, his mother would have said he did not use the monkey word and that he son was punished for something he didn't do. Instead she was looking for some sort of punishment for Symonds too which (injustice) is what she couldn't accept. This is circumstancial but then that is how people would go by when investigate.
RE:Macaca
by Onlooker on Jan 09, 2008 03:27 AM Permalink
I agree. Mr Panicker says Harbhajan has already admitted to using that M-word in another instance. That itself is good enough to bring a conviction against him.
Dear Prem: See Roebuck's latest article. He has many impressive points to make; but the least impressive is about the integrity of Mr. Proctor. As you pointed out in your article yesterday, Mr. Proctor was the Referee who docked Rashid Latif (?) five games for unfairly claiming a grounded catch and the same Mr. Proctor, along with all of the Aussie media, including Mr. Roebuck, have forgotten that a cricketer claiming a grounded catch as legitimate ought to also be hauled on the coals. The Aussies never seem to get it. Roebuck maybe the better of the lot - but he also misses the point. The angst and anger that has been expressed in India and outside Australia is about the Aussies getting away with murder. Umpire Bucknor may be incompetent. Mr. Proctor is increasingly appearing to be a rogue. BCCI and Indian cricket team is playing right into their hands. They should refer the issue of both Ponting and Michael Clark to the ICC, citing the Rashid Latif incident as a precedent.
RE:Roebuck's U Turn
by Michael Mammen on Jan 09, 2008 04:59 AM Permalink
Dear Indian supporters
Have you watched the Latif catch on video? Go to youtube and search "Latif cheating" - and if you can still draw any form of comparison, come back and explain how (as in my previous posts I have illustrated how they cannot be compared).
And if you still want to push them being cited - I would like Ganguly suspended for 10 games for claiming a HALF-VOLLEY in a world cup final against Gilchrist, and Dhoni for 10 games for claiming a HALF-VOLLEY against England.
RE:Roebuck's U Turn
by mohan santhanam on Jan 09, 2008 03:00 AM Permalink
This is just a begining. Hereafter every team from subcontinent will do this and fight for the justice. Team India/BCCI started a good thing.Congrads sachin.
Mr. Panickar you said right. We are emotional but right thinking people. If Calling B....d is the habit and culture in Australia( Refer Allan Border's comments)which comes from childhood. It is pathetic. Cricket Australia and ICC does not like if teams from sub continent revolts. BCCI won this time. No doubt about it. It is not because money power, it is because truth always wins may be lately but surely. ICC and Match refreee should tell both the teams, if any sledging from a player 4 runs will be added everytime and should call the ball no ball.
RE:Good Article
by Amar Kumar on Jan 09, 2008 02:59 AM Permalink
Mohan, North Indians use the word behnc**d frequently even to address their own friends. They are not even bothered that the other person might find it offensive. Thats our culture! So we are only emotional but nor right thinking.
