Basically , I only feel that there are very few things to rectify the current indian team.
1. Firstly, we are totally not utilizing the first 20 overs field restrictions. Champion teams should score atleast 7 runs an over during this period (140 runs after 20 overs). But India never managed to do it even once. This is becoz we either lost wickets or the openers do a consolidation role in the begining itself. The solution would be to bring back V Sehwag who is a match winner by himself to pair up with Sachin and let Sourav come at No:3.
2. Secondly, why do we need 5 bowlers when atleast 2 of them go for more than 6 runs an over (especially Harbhajan) . We should play an extra batsmen especially with teams like Australia.
3. We desperately need an allrounder at No:7 position who can at the minimum bowl 5 overs.
Make the above three changes and look at the following team composition.
V Sehwag Sachin Tendular Sourav Ganguly MS Dhoni Yuvraj Singh Robin Uttappa S Badhrinath/Rohit Sharma/Dinesh Karthik Irfan Patan Murali Karthic Zaheer Khan RP Singh
I'm sure it rocks. For sure the 5th bowler quoto can be shared between Bhadrinath/Sachin/Sourav/Sehwag/Yuvi and if one of them gets a good day he can bowl even 10 overs but we need more batsmen.Sorry, Rahul Dravid who is neither a good fielder nor a bowler does not merit a place in the side given the fact that he is in terrible bad form and in anycase not an aggressive ODI outfit.
RE:My Observations
by raj on Oct 16, 2007 08:27 AM Permalink
First two points bang on target. RD I don't agree yet. He played well in Eng . series . Too much of analysis for these ausis games showing him off color but he is required in middle order.
RE:RE:My Observations
by Starwar on Oct 16, 2007 09:17 AM Permalink
Is there any more LAME excuses required for Dravid ? This has scored only 80 runs in last ten ODI innings at an average of 8.00...Dravid really needs to be kicked out from the ODI team...let him play first class matches like Sehwag until he gets his form back.
What happened to you guys again ? Nobody is criticizing sachin now? Are u guys waiting again for one failure from Sachin again ?? Now he has played well in this series. But no other gave him the needed support to beat the australians. Still i know..everybody is waiting for a failure from sachin. as soon as he fails, we all are going to make the things worst for him by saying he is not performing or he is old enough now. Even though everybody knows that even in his worst form, he has been better than all his other team mates.Thats the fact !!hahaha
RE:What happened to u guys ??
by Sarath Chandra on Oct 16, 2007 05:50 AM Permalink
The attitude you are describing is not sachin-specific. Every Indian player is subjected to similar treatment, but "fans" realize this behavior only when their favorite player is subjected to that treatment. But the same "fans" treat the other players (who they don't like), the same way.
RE:What happened to u guys ??
by Starwar on Oct 16, 2007 07:13 AM Permalink
Well said Roshan...there is big group of rediff readers from south who want to see Sachin and Saurav fail...they are insecure since their man Dravid already is completely out of form..and is getting dropped ...
RE:What happened to u guys ??
by raj on Oct 16, 2007 08:30 AM Permalink
What do u mean.South people don't like Sachin/ Saurav. I'm from south and I'm die hard fan of sachin. And there are at least 90% people who watch cricket for more than 20 years are fans of sachin. Do you now anything other than South , North differences. Bengali , Marathi... Oh may be cast also you should start thinking. I'm sorry to say but its a poor statement
RE:What happened to u guys ??
by Starwar on Oct 16, 2007 09:12 AM Permalink
Raj.......it is good to know you are a true indian...unlike many people who are making foolish statements here earlier against Sachin/Saurav..
RE:What happened to u guys ??
by Smitesh Sundaran on Oct 16, 2007 11:35 AM Permalink
StarWar or whatever...i just dont know why u guys keep saying people from south and all such crab......come on...i think itzz only bcozz u think on those lines....it is people like u who divide the country..i am from south..i am not a great fan of Rahul but i just luv sourav's game...and for me sachin is one of the greatest players india has ever produced.... See this north south, mallu, tamil, bengali, marathi stuff has been doing the rounds for too much of time in rediff.....why cant we indians ever be united and take criticism in the r8 perspective?????
Here is what I have observed on why Australia wins against us almost all the time.
- saves 10 more runs in fielding than us - Runs 15 more runs in single and double which we dont - Scores 20 runs more of the loose deliveries which we fail like guiding past keeper on legside or through slips - Bowls 5 to 7 less loose balls than us - Bowls 12 deliveries with good variations which we dont
Over all they have a 45 runs builtin lead over us no matter what we do which prooves the deciding factors in most of the matches. And they specifically train to achive this called 'skill training' which involves, running ball past keeper, taking catches close to boundaries, hitting stumps, running hard, things to upset bowlers rythem and so on..
Unless we practice heavily to eliminate this gap, it will be hard beating australia
RE:The difference
by Crick fan on Oct 16, 2007 12:34 PM Permalink
Hemal please apply for caochs post. Not joking the BCCI morons wont know whats happening around. Another difference in power play they score at least 30 runs more then us.
What do you mean Jim? You want to retain a player on his past laurels? If you were a boss would you live with an erring employee who spoils the office atmosphere but, who had an excellent past? I have the highest regard for Dravid as a player. But on current form, he has become an eyesore, looks pathetic. Instead of putting him under pressure to score atleast a 30, 40 runs once giving a few more chances, won't it be apt to give him a refreshing break to relax, to work out on his game and to come back even stronger? Do you wish to give him another series to strike form? Instead, a break will do him a world of good. I never meant a Sachin or Saurav or Rahul is finished as such yet. Use them sparingly in turn, to guide the youngsters. I too played cricket; if not at the level you played, at a lesser level. In a forum like this, everyone has a right to opine. It's not mandatory that, it should be to your liking. Afterall, this forum is not owned by you.
RE:Here's your reply Jim!
by raj on Oct 16, 2007 08:05 AM Permalink
dravid has marital issues..think in goti terms....i am a close friend so i am sharing
RE:Here's your reply Jim!
by K Chandru on Oct 16, 2007 11:59 AM Permalink
by Jim on Oct 15, 2007 11:46 PM Again another selector here. Why the emphasis on selection as if you are the guru of team selection. None of us have even played the damn game at the highest level. What makes us think that we can judge if Dravid deserves a spot. Why not talk about what we need to do with say taking pressure off him. Why cant we talk about giving him some really well deserved boost. May be the guy is feeling low. Is there something we can do as fans to help him get back?
Mr. Genius Jim! When someone plays at the highest level, he himself must know to deal with these pressures and there are specialists for this job. I get to watch hims truggling to regain form and he looks pathetic in trying to do so. I write what I feel like. Let ma agin tell you here, I don't need to satisfy you. If you're so concerned about him, go and counsel him. None stops you. Right now, he looks pathetic, an eyesore!
RE:Here's your reply Jim!
by Jim on Oct 16, 2007 03:42 AM Permalink
Now that I have given you the answer on the "objective" portion of the discussion, I will address the "subjective" discussion next.
Nope I am not the owner of the forum, I am expressing my opinion the way you are expressing yours. Mine is in direct contradiction to yours so it does not sit well with you.
Now for the rotation policy, I agree 100% there should be rotation but how they rotate is up to the guys. Look, it may not be very good for someone like Rohit to play a high pressure game against the Aussies! I agree with Sharath when he says we love the LAZY GENIUS kind. We want to see this guy burst on to the scene. But, we need to nurture talent and let it in. Ishant Sharma in any of the games in England would have been a disaster. Rohit did well in SA, we just need to get him in against the Pakistan team which is inferior to this Aussie team for sure. Then you will see the change coming on.
I called you a selector and you showed me the way with the personal comment so I think we are even now!!!
RE:Here's your reply Jim!
by Starwar on Oct 16, 2007 06:59 AM Permalink
Give us a break Jimmy boy...your favorite Dravid has scored only 80 runs in last ten innings at an average of 8.00...Dravid really needs to be kicked out from the team..since he has not got the hint from Vengsakar for seniors to 'Perform or Perish'...Dravid is no longer indispensable in ODIs!!!
RE:Here's your reply Jim!
by Jim on Oct 16, 2007 03:36 AM Permalink
Hey Man, let us look at the situation with the Aussie team. In the last 6 innings the T-20 against India, Brad Hodge has not made more than 40 in any of the innings. The rest of the team is performing fine so we dont tend to observe that. Hodge actually cost Aussies the game in Chandigarh if you look through an Indian's eye. He ate up 30 balls and didnt score anything and just when he was needed, he got out.
There is no real pressure on Dravid other than the artificial pressure we create on him through our irrational behaviour. This team needs to look at FUNDAMENTALS first and work as a team. When you are 189/1 chasing 317 or when you need 56 from the last 5 overs, you are still in a position to win. It is up to the guy standing there to deliver.
As long as we emphasize the change of one individual, it becomes a individual sport not a team sport. Dravid needs a boost from the cricket media and fan. A couple of positive articles or words of encouragement from the rest of the team will always help.
If you look through the comments on Hodge, they are all positive. If you read the Aussie news papers, they are not talking pressure. Eventually when the guy is done, he will be shown the door.
The same with Dravid. He already had a break coming back from England. I would trust him on his need for a break. If he plays he is 100% but he is also in need of support not time off. Time off could put him in the shitter and make him more depressed not less!
RE:india
by alok agarwal on Oct 16, 2007 12:45 AM Permalink
the T20 was fixed for sure because advertises lost heavily in the world cup and the two countries because of which the loss were there were in the finals,,, hail cricters 100 mein se 90 beyemaan phir bhi mera bharat mahan
Australia have once again proved there supremacy over india in the 50 over game.wonder what will happen when india tour australia,,they will loose badly!! Longlive Australia !! India down down !!
Dravid on current form is unfit to bat even at No.11. His confidence is at its lowest ebb. It's reflected even in his fielding. He deserves a break now. I do not undermine his contribution to Indian cricket. But on current form, he doesn't deserve to be in the team. The team can not afford any more failures at that crucial position, especially when we play with 5 bowlers. Let us see what a Rohit Sharma / Dinesh Karthik / S. Badrinath can do at that position.
RE:Take a break, Dravid!
by Jim on Oct 15, 2007 11:46 PM Permalink
Again another selector here. Why the emphasis on selection as if you are the guru of team selection. None of us have even played the damn game at the highest level. What makes us think that we can judge if Dravid deserves a spot. Why not talk about what we need to do with say taking pressure off him. Why cant we talk about giving him some really well deserved boost. May be the guy is feeling low. Is there something we can do as fans to help him get back?
May be there is something we can say about how great the guy has been for India. Why do we want to be doing this "chew everything and spit it out" thing? The guy has been chewed out by the hysterical response of everyone.
If you put yourself in his shoes and look at it:
1. Dravid advocates bringing in young blood 2. Dravid advocates improving fielding standards 3. Dravid pushes for better fitness in players 4. Dravid pushes for treating players right irrespective of age.
His "old" team gets kicked out of the world cup because of some internal bickering. His "old" team wins in England in the tests and shows a lot of resilience in the one-dayers against a good english team.
He has to leave because of some internal games at the BCCI. Dhoni's team (instead of India's team), is young and wins the T-20 world cup. If you put yourself in his shoes, you will be feeling sorry for yourself. You had the vision that never worked for you and now you are back trying. Spare a thought and support the guy.
RE:Take a break, Dravid!
by algoo on Oct 15, 2007 11:56 PM Permalink
Think about team and not about any particular player. Tell BCCI send Dravid to a counselor
RE:Take a break, Dravid!
by Sarath Chandra on Oct 15, 2007 11:50 PM Permalink
Mate, you have a way with words and presentation. Of course the content is great, but without the presentation most of the time it barely gets noticed. Hope to see a lot more from you.
RE:Take a break, Dravid!
by K Chandru on Oct 16, 2007 12:53 AM Permalink
What do you mean Jim? You want to retain a player on his past laurels? If you were a boss would you live with an erring employee who spoils the office atmosphere but, who had an excellent past? I have the highest regard for Dravid as a player. But on current form, he has become an eyesore, looks pathetic. Instead of putting him under pressure to score atleast a 30, 40 runs once giving a few more chances, won't it be apt to give him a refreshing break to relax, to work out on his game and to come back even stronger? Do you wish to give him another series to strike form? Instead, a break will do him a world of good. I never meant a Sachin or Saurav or Rahul is finished as such yet. Use them sparingly in turn, to guide the youngsters. I too played cricket; if not at the level you played, at a lesser level. In a forum like this, everyone has a right to opine. It's not mandatory that, it should be to your liking. Afterall, this forum is not owned by you.
RE:Take a break, Dravid!
by Starwar on Oct 16, 2007 07:04 AM Permalink
Jimmy boy...you must be from south as you are biased supporter of Dravid
Statistics wise...your favorite Dravid has scored only 80 runs in last ten innings at an average of 8.00...Dravid really needs to be KICKED out from the team..NO QUESTION ...
Basides after all the politics he played with Greg & More , he hardly has any backing from the team...so let Dravid suffer and play Ranji trophy till he gets his form back...like Sehwag is doing currently
Then there is the case of Yuvi. When you are delivering by the bundles, arrogance is something people will put up with. If the team is winning and you are leading them towards that win. You are motivating players, helping them out on their errors and you are really the leader, everyone will put up with your arrogance. But when you are doing none of those, you are stuck in your own world.
After hitting those 6s, Yuvi now has earned the ability to remain arrogant and stupid for the rest of the decade. This is the travesty. Dhoni during their recent conversation on NDTV talked about how Yuvi talks to younsters and how he is arrogant.
The thing about India is that, we think that is not only acceptable, it is required!!! We assume that if he does not show that kind of arrogance, he is useless. I dont really think Yuvi undestood how that smile on his face when Dhoni was describing things gave away his attitude.
It is the same with what Dhoni said after the 6th game. He thinks it is his job to protect his players. "we fieleded as well as we could". Well that shows the attitude. We cannot improve now. There is no point working on it. We are too set in our ways. If we win because someone had a great day, we will take credit for it. If not, we will continue to lose this way. I dont really know how Indians got into this kind of culture. I see it in practically everyone. "It is always going to be this way, I cannot change it!" seems to be the genral attitude.
RE:Unrealistic Expectations
by Sarath Chandra on Oct 15, 2007 10:55 PM Permalink
Some excellent observations there Jim. I especially liked the first part, and the first half of second part.
As for the parts I disagree with, I don't think Indians consider arrogance is required. Indians, like everybody else, like confidence and hate arrogance. The problem is, we are "vertically" structured society. Elsewhere, a brick-layer or a house-keeper is in no way inferior to a software engineer. However, in India, we have an intrinsic understanding of what is inferior to do and what is superior (I personally think this is the result of the vertical Hindu caste structure; but that's different matter). So most of us don't really care if we are rude to the "uneducated", "labourers","mass" etc. This is actually arrogance, but not so recognized by any of us. The people who perform better, automatically think they are superior, because of the Indian environment.
Also I don't think Indians don't work on their games. Unfortunately, India has a unreasonable "craze" for the non-working genius. For example, we love a easy looking innings of 80 ball 100 from Sachin/Sehwag laced with boundaries, while we scoff at a workman like similar score from a Pravin Amre or Dravid. Dravid, ofcourse, like Waugh before him, managed to catch the public imagination by superlative performances. But remember they were not loved on their way up; only after confirming that they belong there. This creates people unwilling to work hard in the team. But I don't think everyone is like that.
RE:RE:Unrealistic Expectations
by Jim on Oct 15, 2007 11:49 PM Permalink
Hi Sarath,
I agree with you on the thoughts around the caste system. But, I believe that caste system is actually a morphed one as we see it today. It went through a whole bunch of changes over time and now has come to what it is.
But overall, there has to be a way to change what the guys are doing. This should be fixed.
RE:Unrealistic Expectations
by Sarath Chandra on Oct 16, 2007 12:36 AM Permalink
Jim, the key here is, most of us love telling everybody else what to do. In a tough situation, everybody has an opinion about what somebody else has to do, but rarely does anybody think about what he can do to help the situation.
For example, during a tough series like the ones against Australia, the team and specific individuals are bound to be under pressure at some stage or the other. Logically, if we really want to help our team beat Australia, we have to support our team or individuals during tough times, and give them mental peace and support to get through these periods. We, on the other hand, go on an abusing spree, and demand for sacking of anybody and everybody with barely a thought about what this kind of behavior will have on the psyche of the struggling team or batsman. Even if they change the team as per the "fans" demands, the incoming players would be under similar pressure right from the beginning. A failure there would again increase calls for recalling "experienced players".
Simply, it would be a lot better if individuals decided what they could do to achieve the ends they want, than deciding to tell Dhoni/Dravid/anybody else about what to do.
And please visit the following link when you have time.
