Facts are much more important then perceptions. 1.Fact Murali is not as worse as he is thought by these past greats. 2.You cann't compare 2 different eras in any sports. 3.When he doesn't even want an offie seeing Mr.Kumbles medium pacers ... he need not comment on offies 4.He might be yester year great .. but needs to keep track of present ... 5.If one Mr.IAN says prasanna is greatest offie.. he might have really thought he is greatest.. fact is Greatest ever is Murali not only in offie but in all spin department and Statistics only Stay.. one match wonders for that sake when compared to murali ( prasanna is a one match wonder) 6.Best ever offies r Murali,Saqlain,jim laker.. if any top 3 exists .. it doesn't feature Mr.prasanna until Mr.Ian wants it to be. 7.If the list of chuckers need to be removed from history then lot of greats need to be removed including bunch of pace bowlers from Aus,Pak... that time there wasn't even technology to support those players;) 8.Forget these old Generation greats for them present game is nothing .. and what ever present creats is just by luck
RE:Indian media hype can't change facts
by Balaji Krishnamurthy on Aug 30, 2007 07:33 PM Permalink
Look don't run down Prasanna. He was rated high by all his contemporaries.
It is very unwise to compare the present players with the old generation.Be happy with the present players and give them tips to improve their bowling actions.Now the time has come to share your experiences with the new generation.S-warne/Murali are the best spinners of the world,we have kumbley.
During Prasanna's days it was an orthodox era where players played according to the book.In batting there were greats like Sunil Gavaskar,Viv Richards,Gary Sobers and Allan Border etc.Similarly there were bowlers like Marsh,Grifffith,Hall and Deniss lillee. In todays cricket though you can see performers u cant see the quality of cricket seen in those days.
No doubt Prasanna was a great bowlers and took wickets against good teams and batsmen, but he needs to grow up and leave his pride behind to accept that there are other bowlers who were born after him who could be same or better than he is. Murali is great off spin bowler whether Mr Prasanna like it or not and Murali also has taken wockets of great batsmen. All his 600 odd wickets were not against bangladesh or Zimbabwe. So Mr. Prasanna should grow up and accept facts. You cant keep claiming that the era you played cricket was the best and produced best cricketers. They have been evolving with time and will evolve. There maybe some better than Murali on the way.
RE:Prasanna needs to grow up and accept facts
by sharma on Jul 11, 2007 12:01 PM Permalink
dear he is old man cant growup let him die with his sticky memory
It is hard and unfair to compare sportsmen across generations. Prasanna's average may be worse than Warne/Murali since ground fielding and catching was poor compared to today. At the same time, batters today have better gear and are more aggressice than before... you dont see people just hanging around and blocking all day anymore. Also more cricket is played now.
I think a truly all-time great bowler is one who dominates his generation of batters. Warne and Murali have done that. I believe Prasanna perhaps also did that in his time.
from Sylhet, Bangladesh. It is a pity that a player of Prasanna's calibre has not been evaluated. The superficial statistics sometimes may be misguiding. Comparing 189 wickets of Prasanna with 688 of Murali is not a pleasant observation. Imagine whom did Prasanna play with ? Who were his competitors in the team ? What was the standard of opposition batsmen ? What was the average number of test matches per year ? Was there any alternative of Prasanna ? Is there any Clive Lloyd today ? Any Vivian Richards ? Any Majid Khan to score century before lunch on the first day of a Test Match? Any Gary Sobers ? Considering all these and many other related factors, Prasanna was one of the greats of the then time. Murali is one of the greats of the present time. One should remember that Prasanna had an alternative in the team, Venkat. Murali has no such competition to face. Even a few years ago, Murali used to bowl where the opposition used to play a long innings and bowling for 70/80 overs he got many wickets. On the other hand, Prasanna used to bowl one third of the spin overs and sometimes one fourth (team playing 4 spinners)on an average. If Prasanna had the scope of playing today with he as the only spinner, he will have to be a bit cautious about Lara, Ponting and Heyden. Most of the others would find it difficult to play him and the number of wickets would be difficult to believe since teams like Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, West Indies are in the total race. Moreover, Prasanna had a c
RE:Prasanna - the great
by sharma on Jul 11, 2007 12:16 PM Permalink
current batsmen r better than those of time prassana was playing if he were present player wouldnt get place in team
RE:RE:Prasanna - the great
by Tejas Gurjar on Jul 16, 2007 02:03 PM Permalink
You ignoramus. I actually thought twice before replying because its not worth wasting my time replying to your nonsense, but here goes.. Current batsmen look better because the quality of bowlers has deteriorated around the world. It would be a very ignorant person like you who would suggest that the modern day batsmen are better than Richards, Lloyd, Miandad, Gavaskar, Chappell, Pollock, B. Richards etc Today we have only 1 or 2 genuine quality fast bowlers (if fit) and only 1 or 2 good spinners/slow bowlers in the world. (I am not including chuckers in this list)
Obviously even mediocre batsmen will benefit from this and will try to bloat up their averages.
RE:Prasanna - the great
by babi ati on Jul 11, 2007 12:52 AM Permalink
It is not a good comparison because in those days Prasanna was not backed up with the fielding skills that we are accustomed to now. Catches were dropped at will and ground fielding was atrocious with no dives at the boundary line. It is foolhardy to compare stats of past with the present bowlers. The fact remains, Prasanna is the best.
RE:Prasanna - the great
by Mihirkanti Choudhury on Jul 10, 2007 09:16 PM Permalink
..... clean arm. He had no scandal of chucking after his name. This is one of the additional inputs of his greatness.
He has taken 189 wickets in 49 matches at a very high average of 30.88 .. hardly world class.. this is like Sania teaching Steffi Graf tennis when Prasanna talks about Murali .. Murali has taken 688 wickets in test and 1000 wickets all around internationally at 25.32 average..
RE:For God's Sake
by sharma on Jul 11, 2007 12:19 PM Permalink
current batsmen r better than those of time prassana was playing if he were present player wouldnt get place in team
RE:For God's Sake
by Balaji Krishnamurthy on Aug 30, 2007 07:40 PM Permalink
Many of the so called great batsman of today are flourishing because of a lack of genuine pace bowlers. There are only about 4-5 bowlers of peak pace. This was not the case in the 70s. Also bat technology has improved drastically. Be fair. Prasanna is one of the all time greats. Talking about average, Pras was basically an attacking bowler who used to purchase his wicket.Part of the reason for Murali's success is that most batsman have forgotten to use their feet. I am not taking anything away from Murali. Dont degrade Prasanna to praise Murali
RE:RE:For God's Sake
by kumar viswanathan on Jul 10, 2007 08:35 PM Permalink
You just can't compare Murali with Prasanna. But what we have heard from many ex-players his was one of the best off spinners of all time. In the presence of Bedi,Venkat,Chandra in the same team he has an average of 30 and 149 wickets, it is a great achivement and he is definitely better than Murali for below reasons:
1)No other spinner for competition in same team. 2)Clean Action and never suspected. 3)Respect from opposition. 4)Many ex-players like Ian has always told good things about Prasanna.
RE:For God's Sake
by Jackson on Jul 10, 2007 08:48 PM Permalink
humorous logic ... ckeck cricinfo .. Prasanna's first class average is worse than Murali's int'l career .. they are not in the same league ..
RE:For God's Sake
by Hiren Bhavsar on Jul 11, 2007 01:46 AM Permalink
Murali's avg is higher because he is the only one who takes wkts for SL in tests apart from 1-2 by Vaas..In Prasanna's time they were 3 and even Venkat waiting in the wings to be in the 11.. and mind it there were no Zim, Kenya, Bangladesh
RE:RE:RE:For God's Sake
by Jackson on Jul 11, 2007 01:49 AM Permalink
Hiren,
Average for bowlers mean runs given per wicket .. If there are more good bowlers like Australia .. check McGraths and Warnes average .. they are below 30 .. All good/great bowlers have below 30 average... Even WI bowlers of 80s .. Prasanna can never be considered great based on his achievements/records.. Media is giving him coverage like they give 3rd grade tennis players in our country.. As for Murali chucking .. I have no comment .. maybe yes but ICC's decision in that .. Prasanna is not that great to talk about people who have achieved much more than him ...
RE:For God's Sake
by avinash on Jul 16, 2007 06:35 PM Permalink
Statistic is like bikini bathing suit.What it reveals is trivial and what it conceals is vital. I have witnessed the great offie in the mumbai test against team by Tony Lewis of England. Roger Tolchard was the batsman at crease. He use to go out of crease 3 to 4 steps not to attack but to kill the ball at the spot where it was pitch. Prasanna and kirmani working in tandem virtually fooled tolchard. After feeding several well flighted deliveries to Tolchard which he smothered by dancing yards down the track. Prasanna bowled faster one outside the leg stump which Tolchard failed to read and was found stranded . Before he could know , the wickets were broken in flash by kirmani. Tolchard was at the receiving end of the derision which even Cervantes would not have thought of Don quixote.
Yes no doubt Prasanna was one of the greatest off spinners India had ever produced.Had thre been no politics played by Wadekar at that time, Prasanna would have played more tests.In 1967, when Australian team visited Inida under the captaincy of Bill lawry, All the Australian players were dancing to the magical spin of Prasanna.He took more tahn 25 wickets in that series.At Madras, Australians at one stage were 25/6 and were unable to playe against Prasanna.He use to flight the ball very courageously and wisely.Had he got good feilding side,particularly the close in one,he would have crossed more than 250 wickets at that time.Unfortunately, he himself was not a good feilder.But he was all time great offspinner.Over all he was good gentleman too.
RE:Prasanna
by Balaji Krishnamurthy on Aug 30, 2007 07:43 PM Permalink
Hello, please check your records. Pataudi was captain of India at that time. Where does Wadekar come in? Wadekar was captain from the 1971 West Indies tour to the 1974 England tour. So what politics are you talking about.
Hey.. This guy is really doing a comedy here. He is saying Muralitharan is not a good off-spinner.. OK.. Prasanna is the only off-spinner, the world has seen till now. !! :)
RE:Comedy!!
by Ambarish Mitra on Jul 10, 2007 08:10 PM Permalink
That is his opinion. You may or may not agree. But please do not taunt a world-class bowler. You have no moral right for that.
RE:Comedy!!
by gaurav bonguly on Jul 10, 2007 08:27 PM Permalink
Muralis record is truly great. But the sad fact is, but you just have to watch him to see that he is a chucker. It is clearly visible. All these all too facile explanations of his actions cannot prevail over what you can plainly see.
RE:Comedy!!
by veerapuram dharan on Jul 10, 2007 07:14 PM Permalink
prasanna is true...muthiah has taken 2/3ds of his wickets in srilankan grounds. he is legally allowed to chuck by the ICC. great qualities of a "greatest offie" huh...
RE:Comedy!!
by muthu selvan on Jul 10, 2007 07:37 PM Permalink
hello, He has taken nearly 268 wickets at an astounding avarage of 24.89 in 49 test matches in away grounds. Check this link below if you have any doubts. Dont say he is a chucker.. He has a natural disability in his arm and it is proven by the biomechanics. http://statserver.cricket.org/guru?sdb=filter;playerid=2041;class=testplayer
RE:Comedy!!
by veerapuram dharan on Jul 10, 2007 07:39 PM Permalink
then in that case, if sachin wants to change his bat to aluminium one, saying he has a natural disadvantage of cant hit hard with wooden bat, will that be allowed???
RE:Comedy!!
by muthu selvan on Jul 10, 2007 07:53 PM Permalink
Dont be tense buddy.. Jus for argument sake dont write anything.. Think sense .. Changing a bat to aluminium one due to natural disadvantage ?? What does that mean ?? :)) He is bowling with the same cricket ball as everyone and within all the rules of ICC only. IF THERE IS A TALENT ACCEPT IT.
RE:Comedy!!
by bipul kumar on Jul 11, 2007 04:06 PM Permalink
If he is disabled and this gives him extra advantage then its not fair to others who don't have that "extra" advantage. It is a physical deformity. You can't compare otherwise. This is why I consider Warne better than Murli... Warne has no such spl. gift ;)
RE:Comedy!!
by on Jul 16, 2007 10:30 AM Permalink
If a bowler has natural disability which would permit him to bowl at 160, would the ICC allow him. Or the other players will accept it. There are rules and they have to be followed. DISABILITY IS NO EXCUSE TO BREAK LAW.
